Tesla Model X Cancellation

[Cyclone]

I just read the thread in it's entirety and please note, I am reading this after the Op's letter from Tesla parting ways has been removed from public viewers. Given that, we do not know that the Op has been blacklisted from buying another Tesla, but from buying a build-to-order vehicle. With what's knows, he could walk into a store and (using his own name), but a demo car they have there. These cars are sold "as-is" and the Op would know exactly what he was buying, regardless of whether there would be changes coming to newer cars or whatever.

 

[montauto]

I honestly don't understand the anger at Tesla over the release of the D. Sure, I would be disappointed too, but if I was to walk into the Apple store and ask if the iPhone was going to able to do x,y&z in the future I would have gotten the same response as you did from the salespeople--they know nothing in advance.

When you make a purchase, you make a transaction which is beneficial to both parties. Thus, by you choosing to buy the P85+ you believed you got more utility out of the car than the money. That does not change when a new product is released, and if you were not satisfied with the P85+ you would have not purchased it.

And I made peace with it at the time ... Agreed to trade the car and lose money on it and I moved on.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Yes, the letter he is allowing us to see doesn't seem unreasonable. Other than the fact that he's making a big deal about signing the paperwork sight unseen...and was done for his financial benefit (tax credit), to which he clearly wanted since he decided to sign. However, that letter is clearly not the whole story.

I think this is pretty obviously the case. Which is why I bold-ed something I feel is unreasonable, which the OP seems to feel is "perfectly reasonable" (to use his own words).

Fair enough. I agree that it matters why the paperwork was done in 2014. If it was done because of OP, it matters. If it was done because of Tesla, it matters differently? The OP says it was not done because of him, but we can't verify that.

Also, it matters what may have transpired before and after that email. I don't know what that is, so I can't pass judgment on that.

 

[montauto]

Then take this piece of sound legal advice... SHUT UP AND DO IT. Trashing Tesla here is serving you no legal purpose (could be actually hurting you) and honestly, given most of our dealings with Tesla Motors (including negative issues) I find your story suspect at best. Sometimes things go wrong. We've all seen it. But you don't go after them with both barrels without expecting return fire. You calmly, and diplomatically explain the issue and from what I have seen Tesla Motors BENDS OVER BACKWARDS to make things right.

If that's not your experience, and you've been legally wronged, exercise your rights... but slandering Tesla here serves no purpose but to slander Tesla ... which seems to be your intent.

Thanks for your advice.

How do I slander Tesla ?

It's a discussion board and everyone has opinion.

 

[Krugerrand]

I am holding my judgment. I am one of the few people on this thread who have not passed any judgment. My concern has been what this event might do in the lobbying sector, but that is completely irrespective of how reasonable or not Tesla's decision might be - it is related to the idea what the dealership lobby might do with instances of sole seller / sole arbiter blacklisting precedent. Do you think those guys would care if it is warranted or not? No, they'd use it to the max regardless, if they were to use it. I hope they won't.

You most certainly have passed judgment and stating otherwise in a clever word way doesn't make it different.

This event has nothing to do with any lobbying sector. It's been pointed out to you a couple of times that dealerships AND other car mfgs also blacklist people.

A lot of people have said some very nasty things about the OP in this thread. Are you suggesting they really have the knowledge of the incident - indeed from both sides - to do so objectively? I sure don't.

I'm suggesting that to be consistent (or objective), if that's something that's important to you, you should extend the same courtesy of not enough information to Tesla as you have to the OP. You didn't do that, so don't call out others on not doing it either.

 

[Canuck]

Why do you keep saying these things? Are you here to defend Tesla?

I said it because any lawyer would tell him not to post on this, or any, forum about his intended lawsuit. That is sound legal advice to him. If I was here to defend Tesla, would I be telling him that? Also, did you read the parts where I said Tesla did do him wrong? I don't see that wrong as actionable but that's just my opinion.

When you post your opinion, I don't ask if you are here to defend him. Please show the same respect towards me.

- - - Updated - - -

You most certainly have passed judgment and stating otherwise in a clever word way doesn't make it different.

Agreed. In fact, he has passed judgment much louder than most.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

You most certainly have passed judgment and stating otherwise in a clever word way doesn't make it different.

This event has nothing to do with any lobbying sector. It's been pointed out to you a couple of times that dealerships AND other car mfgs also blacklist people.

I agree, I have passed judgment in one thing: I'm thinking blacklisting customers is not wise for the dealership lobby reason. And I don't agree it is as simple as you make it out to be, some dealers blacklisting someone is not the same - and would not be argued in a legislature the same - as a sole seller, sole arbiter kind of situation.

I have definitely not passed judgment on who is right, the OP or Tesla. I couldn't, because I genuinely don't know. I love Tesla, the car, the company and the mission, and definitely care more about them than of the OP, but it just isn't in my nature to play favorites. If I don't know, I don't know. Call me suspicious by nature, if anything.

I'm suggesting that to be consistent (or objective), if that's something that's important to you, you should extend the same courtesy of not enough information to Tesla as you have to the OP. You didn't do that, so don't call out others on not doing it either.

I resent that. I sure have not said anything bad about Tesla in this thread (aside from questioning the wisdom regarding the lobby), while very personal comments of OP have been made. Making the lobby point I acknowledge, but that is only because it is irrespective of who is right in the OP's case, it could sting Tesla in any case. Other than that, I genuinely don't know who is more right in this, OP or Tesla. Just because I've argued a bunch of people (whom I think may have been too quick to judge OP), doesn't mean I've been arguing against Tesla.

As far as I know, Tesla is not in this thread.

- - - Updated - - -

I said it because any lawyer would tell him not to post on this, or any, forum about his intended lawsuit.

But that's not what you said in the message I responded to. You were cheering him to continue, so that Tesla's defense is helped. Just seemed odd to me.

 

[GreenT]

I said it because any lawyer would tell him not to post on this, or any, forum about his intended lawsuit.

Exactly, Canuck!
Also, if it were ... it would be libel, not slander ... libel is the written word, slander the spoken; law school 101!

Tesla might have made one or more mistakes with this, but this forum is no place to be discussing it OP, nor is posting that email complete with alleged VIN.
And, if true, Jerome's email address ... tacky.
In fact a mod should delete the attachment.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

I'm starting to think it is unrealistic for the likes of OP, in any case, to get a fair hearing on TMC.

 

[AlMc]

I'm starting to think it is unrealistic for the likes of OP, in any case, to get a fair hearing on TMC.

Neither TM or the OP can get a 'fair hearing' on TMC. We do not have all the facts from all parties.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Neither TM or the OP can get a 'fair hearing' on TMC. We do not have all the facts from all parties.

I'm guessing you know what I mean.

 

[svp6]

Any particular reason why the original attachment is no longer available? Just curious....

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Any particular reason why the original attachment is no longer available? Just curious....

Perhaps it included emails from other people than OP? I would find that a reasonable reason.

However, the call(s?) to remove OPs own emails I can not understand.

 

[AlMc]

I'm guessing you know what I mean.

Yes, I know what you mean but does anyone honestly think that posting this type of thread on TMC is going to get support from TMC members, most who support the company both with their purchasing of their product(s) and their stock?

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Yes, I know what you mean but does anyone honestly think that posting this type of thread on TMC is going to get support from TMC members, most who support the company both with their purchasing of their product(s) and their stock?

I guess I would wish for a bit open mind and balance - and I'm hoping over time it will materialize. I think it is in our interest, also as Tesla owners and stock-holders.

It has been a pretty brutal thread and it is not the only one of its kind. I could see it chasing some people away that one wouldn't want to chase away. Oh well, all this is very off-topic.

 

[Canuck]

But that's not what you said in the message I responded to. You were cheering him to continue, so that Tesla's defense is helped. Just seemed odd to me.

It's called sarcasm. He seems to have got my point, even though you may have not.

It has been a pretty brutal thread and it is not the only one of its kind. I could see it chasing some people away that one wouldn't want to chase away. Oh well, all this is very off-topic.

I think it's threads like these that draw people in. Most people like a good controversy.

 

[Zythryn]

I guess I would wish for a bit open mind and balance - and I'm hoping over time it will materialize. I think it is in our interest, also as Tesla owners and stock-holders.

It has been a pretty brutal thread and it is not the only one of its kind. I could see it chasing some people away that one wouldn't want to chase away. Oh well, all this is very off-topic.

AnxietyRanger, I'm not sure if you have the levels of litigious behavior as we do in the U.S.
This is probably part of the reason the OP is getting such a cold shoulder.
By his own words, he has suggested starting a class action suit, individual lawsuit ("...stop by my lawyer on the way home..."), insisted on a $30,000 discount clause.

Lawsuits cost money, and this seems to be about as high cost a customer as you can get.
Most likely Tesla would be happy to sell him an inventory model, but I can certainly understand why they don't want to have him reserving a Model X.

And no, I don't feel this will hurt Tesla in any way in their battle against the dealers. You are, IMO, trying to create anxiety for yourself.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

AnxietyRanger, I'm not sure if you have the levels of litigious behavior as we do in the U.S.
This is probably part of the reason the OP is getting such a cold shoulder.
By his own words, he has suggested starting a class action suit, individual lawsuit ("...stop by my lawyer on the way home..."), insisted on a $30,000 discount clause.

That may play a part of the reason for Tesla's actions, of course. Reading OP's letter, maybe I'm not quite sure that it is all as simple as you put it either. A lot hinges on how unreasonable he was to deny delivery (when wrong seats found) and did OP initiate and insist on the 2014 signing or was it instead someone else, but these are hard to ascertain from our point of view. We just don't know enough.

And no, I don't feel this will hurt Tesla in any way in their battle against the dealers. You are, IMO, trying to create anxiety for yourself.

Good. Let's hope it doesn't.

 

[aarontayto]

$30,000 litigation? Jeez come on... I was backing you til this point.

Over here we raise an independent complaint and hope to get a free hat at the end if lucky. Lawsuit culture in the U.S. for ya I guess?

 

[Nevek]

"pulsus a mortuus equus"