Tesla Model X vs Lexus 450h

[DelPhonic1]

on the other hand when you choose to drive a heavy car like a Tesla model X you inflict much heavier damage on the roads (= dust, also pollution when needing more frequent road repair and whatnot: Chart of the Day: Vehicle Weight vs Road Damage Levels ) AND the tire wear is also worse on the X. Both contribute significantly to PM2.5 pollutants.

Since you are mentioning other factors in comparing ICE’s to EV and heavier to lighter— how about comparing how many soldiers are sent overseas to protect the fuel supply of that Lexus. How many soldiers were killed, maimed, endure and continue to endure PTSD, primarily to protect that Lexus fuel source? Have any more people died from tailpipe emissions from burning and refining that gasoline, or from plugging into that charger? Any more cancer deaths from contributing high fossil fuel emissions? Any more climate change effects at play? Any islands around the world where those nations are planning to vacate their lands because of sea levels rising partly because of fossil fuels? Do we not already have scientific studies that measure this ...asking for a friend.

 

[Dutchie]

So strange to read about these horror stories about service. Service here in Vancouver is AMAZING! People are great, always a nice loaner ready. Doing more than asked. I sometimes I even make an excuses just to go there.

 

[verygreen]

how about comparing how many soldiers are sent overseas to protect the fuel supply of that Lexus

that's not a direct impact though, the oil is important for other reasons (did you count how much plastic is used in a Tesla? Those "vegan" seats are made out of.... oil ) The pavements destroyed by the cars use a lot of oil byproducts too.

Any more cancer deaths from contributing high fossil fuel emissions?

reportedly PM2.5 is more deadly

Overall the question is complicated and you cannot just paint it as "Tesla good, Lexus bad". Tesla also takes a heavier toll on the environment and lives to produce it (those batteries, and the Lithium for them) but this is often brushed away. Also Teslas are more easily discarded/totalled because of lack of repair of infrastructure necessitating another replacement Tesla (case in point, I have bought a single ICE car since 2007, I still own it. I bought three model X cars since 2017)

It's all a set of trade offs and people decide themselves which poison they want to take. Obviously around these forums Tesla poison is really popular, but I just hope people take it with eyes wide open too.

 

[E Dizzle]

that's not a direct impact though, the oil is important for other reasons (did you count how much plastic is used in a Tesla? Those "vegan" seats are made out of.... oil ) The pavements destroyed by the cars use a lot of oil byproducts too.


reportedly PM2.5 is more deadly

Overall the question is complicated and you cannot just paint it as "Tesla good, Lexus bad". Tesla also takes a heavier toll on the environment and lives to produce it (those batteries, and the Lithium for them) but this is often brushed away. Also Teslas are more easily discarded/totalled because of lack of repair of infrastructure necessitating another replacement Tesla (case in point, I have bought a single ICE car since 2007, I still own it. I bought three model X cars since 2017)

It's all a set of trade offs and people decide themselves which poison they want to take. Obviously around these forums Tesla poison is really popular, but I just hope people take it with eyes wide open too.

Except that all Teslas produce zero emissions when driven. We can talk about all the minor dust and particles, but the fact of the matter is the Lexus is contributing to the hundreds of thousands of deaths from gas and diesel emissions every year worldwide.

 

[verygreen]

Except that all Teslas produce zero emissions when driven

Only if you don't count PM2.5 from destroyed pavement and tires, of course. These are NOT minor. PM2.5 is linked to a lot of diseases and death in cities.
And we'll ignore that not every kWh is relatively clean either at that. But I understand it's easier to ignore/trivialize all inconvenient truth stuff.

 

[Sandiegodoug]

2011 Lexus RX 450h AWD SUV/Curb weight


4,652 lbs



2017 Tesla Model X 100D/Curb weight


5,267 lbs



Didn’t realize my rx weights almost as much as my model x. So it emits almost the same amount of PM2.5 plus all the tailpipe emissions.

 

[verygreen]

2011 Lexus RX 450h AWD SUV/Curb weight
4,652 lbs
2017 Tesla Model X 100D/Curb weight
5,267 lbs
Didn’t realize my rx weights almost as much as my model x. So it emits almost the same amount of PM2.5 plus all the tailpipe emissions.

it's 12 % more, but the effect is to the power of 4 bigger from the weight

 

[E Dizzle]

Only if you don't count PM2.5 from destroyed pavement and tires, of course. These are NOT minor. PM2.5 is linked to a lot of diseases and death in cities.
And we'll ignore that not every kWh is relatively clean either at that. But I understand it's easier to ignore/trivialize all inconvenient truth stuff.

Wow, so hostile! So what's your point? Every vehicle with tires create PM2.5. Ok, so there should be no vehicles for transportation and we should walk everywhere? Sounds like you don't read up on current events, but energy produced from coal and other dirty sources have dramatically decreased in the last 2 years and many areas have a larger percent of renewables for their energy production compared to coal. I actually made the choice for my car to run purely on solar when I charge at home through this modern technology called solar panels. You should look it up, it's pretty cool.

 

[Sandiegodoug]

My model 3, house , pool all run by solar panels including all the air I want . I can charge x too, but not on trips. I was hoping to convert the Lexus to a plug in
But Lexus corporate told me hydrogen was the future and their customers didn’t want electric cars.

 

[verygreen]

Every vehicle with tires create PM2.5

my point is heavier vehicles create a lot more of it than the lighter ones.

By choosing a BEV you are pretty much exchanging one mode of pollution for another. Sure, it's your choice which way you want to pollute. Just don't think you somehow avoid it.

 

[Zorg]

Only if you don't count PM2.5 from destroyed pavement and tires, of course. These are NOT minor. PM2.5 is linked to a lot of diseases and death in cities.
And we'll ignore that not every kWh is relatively clean either at that. But I understand it's easier to ignore/trivialize all inconvenient truth stuff.

Seems like false equivalency to me. EVs cars have been proven to be cleaner than comparable iCE cars over their lifetime. As the grid gets cleaner, so do the cars.

 

[verygreen]

Seems like false equivalency to me. EVs cars have been proven to be cleaner than comparable ICE cars over their lifetime. As the grid gets cleaner, so do the cars.

If you check the studies you'll see that it's a lot less cut and dry like that, the PM2.5 is not part of the studies and only greenhouse gsases are and this is even before looking into what the ACTUAL lifetime of Tesla cars is (them being relatively new (so not a lot of real world stats to rely on, only mighty hand-waiving about million miles this and that), with relatively poor QC/QA that needs a lot fo repairs, parts shortage, more likely to be totalled and junked in accidents and so on)

 

[Zorg]

If you check the studies you'll see that it's a lot less cut and dry like that, the PM2.5 is not part of the studies and only greenhouse gsases are and this is even before looking into what the ACTUAL lifetime of Tesla cars is (them being relatively new (so not a lot of real world stats to rely on, only mighty hand-waiving about million miles this and that), with relatively poor QC/QA that needs a lot fo repairs, parts shortage, more likely to be totalled and junked in accidents and so on)

I find your logic suspicious.

 

[E Dizzle]

my point is heavier vehicles create a lot more of it than the lighter ones.

By choosing a BEV you are pretty much exchanging one mode of pollution for another. Sure, it's your choice which way you want to pollute. Just don't think you somehow avoid it.

Except that I'm not trading one pollution for another. This post is comparing the Model X to the RX450h and both are large heavy vehicles that produce very similar levels of PM2.5. The key difference you keep overlooking is that one produces zero emissions while driving and the other burns gasoline which contributes to hundreds of thousands of deaths worldwide every single year. The hybrid system in the Lexus can barely run on all electric mode. It's great for drive-thrus and times when you're sitting there idling.

 

[Zorg]

Quick googling shows that PM 2.5 sources include vehicle emissions, especially diesel, coal burning, etc. Tire wear is a small fraction. As I suspected, that line of argument does not hold up. It doesn't make Tesla perfect, but certainly much better for the environment. If one happens to have solar panels, then it's not even close.

 

[AMPd]

I bought a Model X in June of 2017, intending it to drive about 10000 miles a year. I'd use my motorcycle to commute, I thought, like I had been doing for +8 years, and would replace every year at 30000 miles.

It's 2020, I still have the same motorcycle which I had in 2017, it still hasn't reached 30000 miles and my Model X has raked up 87000 miles.

I'm not sure if you need to worry about service or reliability.. My Tesla's (we bought an additional Model 3) only need new tires, since the brake pads and brake disks last for ages. There are no liquids to replace, nothing to be done.

That’s not true, why would you post such a blatant lie?

 

[AMPd]

@E Dizzle which part of my post do you disagree with exactly?

 

[wooter]

That’s not true, why would you post such a blatant lie?

I'm not sure what do you consider a blatant lie. Care to tell me what exactly I should have done and which liquids I should have had replaced?

 

[AMPd]

I'm not sure what do you consider a blatant lie. Care to tell me what exactly I should have done and which liquids I should have had replaced?

You should have read the owners manual, but even without reading it you should know that it’s recommended that you flush your brake fluid every 2-3 years.

 

[wooter]

You should have read the owners manual, but even without reading it you should know that it’s recommended that you flush your brake fluid every 2-3 years.

Well then, what a shock after 3 years of use