Tesla Model Y complète Shutdown due to 3rd Party EV charger

[tga]

But it's clear cut. If the invoice shows your fuse needs replacement that's because it's had a surge from the charger. There is very little else to cause that and Tesla may not have any further information to tell you. There's nothing fishy going on other than the charger had a fault and it's blown your fuse.

To play devil's advocate: You don't really have evidence to prove the root cause here; you're ignoring the possibility of a BMS fault commanding the charger to "do something bad". While I agree that's unlikely and it's probably the charger's fault, that doesn't 100% absolve Tesla. Plus, Tesla's refusal to share any diagnostic information to back up their claim that it's the chargers fault doesn't really help their case, does it?

If I grenade an ICE engine because of bad fuel, it isn't the car's fault. (That's why every drop of fuel going into my ICE cars gets a paid receipt!)

Many modern high performance cars recommend premium for best performance, but can safely run with regular at lower power output by retarding spark, reducing turbo boost, etc.

But what if there's a bug in the ECU code that causes excessive knock with regular gas? Then grenading the engine with regular "bad gas" is absolutely the manufacturer's fault.

 

[Pianewman]

But what if there's a bug in the ECU code that causes excessive knock with regular gas? Then grenading the engine with regular "bad gas" is absolutely the manufacturer's fault.

Sorry, I was referring to diesel engines. Bad fuel (w/o appropriate lubricity) can quickly grenade a HPFP, but let's not go down that rabbit hole...

 

[MP3Mike]

Hopefully it didn't start with your car trying to draw 250kW from a 44kW unit.

That isn't how DC charging works. The car doesn't draw anything. It tells the charger how much it can accept, and the charger is responsible for sending/pushing up to that amount of power.

 

[Dangerous Fish]

To play devil's advocate: You don't really have evidence to prove the root cause here; you're ignoring the possibility of a BMS fault commanding the charger to "do something bad". While I agree that's unlikely and it's probably the charger's fault, that doesn't 100% absolve Tesla. Plus, Tesla's refusal to share any diagnostic information to back up their claim that it's the chargers fault doesn't really help their case, does it?

So you're saying a car's BMS can command a charger to do something which will lead not only to a possible fuse blow but also could cause the charger to explode?
That sounds like bad charger hardware/software design...

The most probable cause of a Tesla blowing it's fuse due to being plugged into a DC charger is a short circuit in the charger. When that happens and the circuitry which manages the fuse detects it, the fuse would blow in a couple of milliseconds, so there's not going to be anything detected in the car to log. There might be if the fault originated in the car's battery pack, but doubtful if it's external.

I can't think of any fault which could originate from the car and cause both the car's fuse to blow and the charger to "explode and smoke". And that's no doubt why Tesla aren't providing any information about it. They don't have any to provide.

 

[QtownTaxiGreg]

And that's no doubt why Tesla aren't providing any information about it. They don't have any to provide.

You may well be correct but it's bad business to not simply say that themselves. If there is nothing to hide they can simply make the claim that the fuse blew due to outside influences and there is no data indicating anything was wrong up to that point in time. Instead they are putting the OP in a jam. That's not fair.

 

[Dangerous Fish]

You may well be correct but it's bad business to not simply say that themselves. If there is nothing to hide they can simply make the claim that the fuse blew due to outside influences and there is no data indicating anything was wrong up to that point in time. Instead they are putting the OP in a jam. That's not fair.

We don't know exactly what Tesla said but it's not their responsibility to comment on 3rd party issues anyway. Sometimes it's better to say nothing when all the facts aren't known. Why is OP in a jam? He should be going after the charger company. Their charger is supposedly toast so an inspection will show why.

 

[QtownTaxiGreg]

Why is OP in a jam

T are leaving him all alone to take on the charging co with no information. All he can say to charging co is " your charger blew up my car".

He could be in a much better position, ie not in a jam, if he could say "T says there was no fault in my car before your charger blew up and blew up my car".

 

[Dangerous Fish]

T are leaving him all alone to take on the charging co with no information. All he can say to charging co is " your charger blew up my car".

He could be in a much better position, ie not in a jam, if he could say "T says there was no fault in my car before your charger blew up and blew up my car".

He can say that to them without Tesla doing anything because it's true. Why involve Tesla in something that has nothing to do with them?
This is like the people complaining because their 3rd party HUD stopped working after a car software update. It's not Tesla's fault.

 

[QtownTaxiGreg]

He can say that to them without Tesla doing anything because it's true. Why involve Tesla in something that has nothing to do with them?

We don't know exactly what Tesla said

You can't have it both ways.

Tesla denied to the OP the car had any fault.

Providing no evidence
or a supporting statement, that doesn't help the OP battle the charging co. If they have no liability it would not cost them anything, so why not?

 

[Dangerous Fish]

You can't have it both ways.

Tesla denied to the OP the car had any fault.

Providing no evidence
or a supporting statement, that doesn't help the OP battle the charging co. If they have no liability it would not cost them anything, so why not?

We don't know the actual words or writing Tesla OP has from Tesla. We have an abbrevated account, that's all.

Tesla may have actual data to conclusively say the charger was the problem, they may not. The mode of failure might be enough for the engineers to know what happened.

OP is telling us that Tesla has said it's the charger at fault, so if that was actually said he can go to the charger people with that. If they bat him back to Tesla he's stuck, but we can't assume Tesla should be there to fight our corner every time a 3rd party product damages something in the car.

You could plug a bad aftermarket HUD into the CANbus and fry the car's loom. Does Tesla have to provide some sort of documentary evidence to prove it wasn't their fault? Of course not because it's obvious where the blame lies. Why would they waste their time (which costs money, BTW)?

Everyone is assuming Tesla has some sort of diagnotic report they are witholding. As I've explained, they may not because with a charger fault like this, the car's fuse can blow so fast, that's all the evidence you'll have or need. Maybe Tesla explained that to OP? We don't know because we don't have the transcript of the conversation.

We can carry on arguing about whether Tesla should do more, but it may be more productive for the OP to contact an independent expert and get their take on what could have caused the issue so he can discuss liability with all parties from a more knowledgeable position. If he wants his money back, legal action of some sort may be the only way so that's something he'll probably have to do anyway if the French aren't cooperative.

It may help to know that the charger pictured is supplied by Izivia, a subsidiary of EDF. Incidentally they shut down a large part of their 50kW network in France a few years ago after several chargers overheated...

I feel sorry for the OP and I hope he can resolve this without suffering too much more stress, but I fear as France is part of the equation it's going to be difficult.

 

[nohjames]

But it's clear cut. If the invoice shows your fuse needs replacement that's because it's had a surge from the charger. There is very little else to cause that and Tesla may not have any further information to tell you. There's nothing fishy going on other than the charger had a fault and it's blown your fuse.
Once the handshake is done and connection established, if the charger then decides to reverse polarity or surge to 800V or whatever else it may have done, that's the charger's fault and it's doubtful there will be anything in the logs as the fuse will blow first.
Yes, these situations are rare but the more companies entering the fast charging arena, the more likely there will be issues if they don't put enough protection in them.
Most Tesla owners stick to Tesla SuCs even if it means going off their route to do so. If you want no further trouble, I suggest you use that strategy.
Too many Tesla owners like to blame Tesla for everything bad that happens to them. Take a step back and look at the situation more objectively.

FYI not blaming Tesla,

Am I reading this correctly? The Tesla fuse operated exactly as designed, right? Why would this be Tesla's fault? The fuse blew before any power got past it, so I don't see how any diagnostic would show anything (just paraphrasing what others have said)

If I grenade an ICE engine because of bad fuel, it isn't the car's fault. (That's why every drop of fuel going into my ICE cars gets a paid receipt!)

 

[nohjames]

My intention is not to blame Tesla here, but the explanation now is that there was no proper handshake done, so the fuse blew, no electricity was received/delivered by the EV charger. Simply, there was a communication fault from the charger which caused the Tesla fuse to blow. In lay terms, how is this possible? Given the explanation, I'd suspect this happens more often than not? First time owner of an EV, and only three months into driving this car, feel like the luckiest guy on the planet!

 

[Dangerous Fish]

My intention is not to blame Tesla here, but the explanation now is that there was no proper handshake done, so the fuse blew, no electricity was received/delivered by the EV charger. Simply, there was a communication fault from the charger which caused the Tesla fuse to blow. In lay terms, how is this possible? Given the explanation, I'd suspect this happens more often than not? First time owner of an EV, and only three months into driving this car, feel like the luckiest guy on the planet!

I wasn't accusing you of blaming Tesla for the actual issue, just to be clear. It's just that many owners encounter problems with their cars and seem to default to Tesla being to blame without doing any research or investigation first.

Who has given you this explanation? You said "Basically after inserting 44 kw plug, the EV station exploded with some smoke coming out." Do you still stand by that? A comms fault will not blow the Tesla fuse nor will it cause a working charger to explode.

The handshake between charger and car happens before any DC current flows. The car is physically disconnected from the DC charger during that comms, so it's impossible for the fuse to blow at that time. At the risk of repeating myself, the only way a charger would "explode" and blow the car's fuse at the same time would be due to a fault in the charger, most probably a short circuit. Nothing happening in the car could cause that. If too much current was suddenly drawn by the car somehow during the charging process (like a sudden short within the battery), it's fuse would blow before the charger would be affected or explode.

Also, what is the "invoice" you referred to earlier? Can you post it here so we can see what it says?

 

[nohjames]

The Tesla service centre (only english speaker apparently) via the app, attached a screenshot of the most recent explanation. I 100% stand by what I observed.. the EV station made a very loud bang, then smoke came out, just smoke, no fire. No invoice, just estimates to replace fuse (Euro400!!) in the app, pushing me to accept and move on. My car insurance company has told me to seek legal assistance from their own company saying that my rights under French law regarding this matter has been violated (especially given the car is less than 2 years old)

, appears to be free of charge, but could be wrong! they strongly advised not to repair it until an inspection is done from 3rd party... i need this damn car, been 6 days now, so am really stuck on whether to pursue or just eat up the repair and towing cost... the French EV charging company has gone MIA, literally...

 

[Dangerous Fish]

3rd party inspection is a good start. Your insurance isn't covering you for the cost of a rental while this is sorted?
I'm afraid Izivia has a bad reputation when it comes to customer service. Their Trustpilot score is 1.7!
It looks like the legal route and more time/stress or just pay for the fuse and move on.
The legal route may be fruitless as I suspect they will already have fixed/replaced that charger or will do very soon, leaving no evidence of negligence on their part.
This is not a common issue with Teslas or EVs in general. You have been very unlucky unfortunately.

For the future:
Stick to Superchargers. Don't use third part chargers uneless it's an emergency.
Get yourself some independent breakdown cover. The Tesla breakdown cover is very limited.
Good luck!

 

[nohjames]

Yes, time to move on, Tesla called me to say that they will charge me grounding fees in a few days (Euro 40/day) if I don't accept the repairs estimates... The lady clearly didn't read the history of events, as I told her that the Tesla EMEA engineer who remoted into my Tesla said that there was an electrical surge. She couldn't even explain her contraction of why the Tesla got "bricked". It's hard to move on when this was out of my control and I had to pay for towing as well!

Thanks for your suggestion. I'm told Tesla superchargers aren't great for the battery's longevitity, not true? Also, they cost a lot more than the others.. well noted, I'd rather pay more than have to experience this again!

 

[Sophias_dad]

I'm told Tesla superchargers aren't great for the battery's longevitity

That's not true, but superchargers are certainly no worse than third party L3(DC) chargers. Just look at what the third party L3 charger here did.

Put another way... electrons are electrons, whether they are being moved by a supercharger at 150kw or a third party L3 charger at 150kw.

 

[Dangerous Fish]

Thanks for your suggestion. I'm told Tesla superchargers aren't great for the battery's longevitity, not true? Also, they cost a lot more than the others.. well noted, I'd rather pay more than have to experience this again!

Untrue on both counts. What would have been the cost of that charger and what location was it?
Here's just one story which debunks the myth about Supercharging:

 

[holmgang]

I'm being told that maybe best to only charge at Tesla charging stations as other 3rd party may ruin the battery, any truth to this? Similar comparison is to avoid using 3rd party iPhone chargers as apparently they ruin the battery due to inconsistent power output/usage.

You encountered a black swan event. This should be rare for obvious reasons - gigantic risk and liability at both ends. Most people dont get issues like this and similarly we plug our phones in different chargers and plugs all the time.

Agreed, but why is Tesla withholding the technical diagnosis for this case, they said my invoice was enough evidence.. seriously? I need some evidence to go back to the EV charging company for responsiblilty and reimbursement. At this stage, something fishy is going on. As preivous poster has indicated, there needs to be a proper handshake between car and EV charging station. I'm serioulsy wondeirng why I even bought an EV now given this is a serious risk (albeit a tail risk apparently) for all EV cars. Is this really that rare? I'd love to the stats!

Firstly, tesla service is like any other car dealership service - luck of the draw. Some are bad and lazy and some are friendly and communicative. I've experienced both, and like for both cars i've experienced both types of service from the same location!!

Second, there's probably very little they can find that would be useful for them to know or for you to be satisfied. The fuse sits close to the power source (charger) to protect the rest of the system (vehicle). If there's some logs in the car... it might say something like "charging door opened" "plug inserted" "fuse blew".

You can try to press the service center -- or go around and go to tesla corporate ? -- and get engineers to share you some details. Maybe itll give you some details of the negotiated charging details just before the fuse blew... but again, theres next to zilch possibility that your car decided to go kablooey of its own accord

 

[holmgang]

I'm told Tesla superchargers aren't great for the battery's longevitity, not true? Also, they cost a lot more than the others.. well noted, I'd rather pay more than have to experience this again!

1. Very broadly speaking charging at higher power creates more wear on the battery, compared to home charging at lower power. It is also very contested how much is this effect in real life. (there are other variables affecting the wear)
2. The control of the charge that in effect protect the batterys longevity belongs to the battery management system inside the car. It doesnt matter if the source is a high power supercharger or high power 3rd party.
3. Supercharger are most definitely not more expensive than others! It is consistently cheaper than competitors, and even cheaper than slower L2 chargers.