Tesla OR third party charger?

[ojock]

Arg + DJP31 - many thanks, great info + pictures.

 

[ojock]

On another thread, a poster posted this video about Zappi 2 which apparently doesn't need Earth rod;

Is this correct? Or somewhat correct which reduces the risk to an acceptable level that make earth rod redundant? Or just marketing spiel?

I have to admit I'm baffled by the science, I read the threads and try to absorb but my brain is frying! So despite my attempts, I will probably have to accept the "simple" answer that if it meets the regulations then it's a "pass", but I'm still happy to learn from all the replies from the very helpful posters on here.

 

[DJP31]

@ojock this is way beyond my paygrade, but I would be confident that @arg will be able to give you an answer that you can rely on.

 

[ojock]

@ojock this is way beyond my paygrade, but I would be confident that @arg will be able to give you an answer that you can rely on.

..and my grade too

I was heading down the Tesla Home Connector route, but it seems they're falling behind others, not just *maybe* doing without an Earth Rod, but also like RCD Type B too which apparently it has (or at least the equivalent).

It does sound like less work and the sparky bill should in theory be cheaper....

 

[ojock]

@ojock this is way beyond my paygrade, but I would be confident that @arg will be able to give you an answer that you can rely on.

On another thread, post 37#;

Home charging options

@arg indeed has answered;

Just recently, claiming that it's connected to a change in the regulations (actually untrue), a couple of manufacturers claim to have started making these special devices. Furthermore, their special devices are so special that they magically manage to work without an earth rod at all. This would be great if it was true, but so far as I can see it is impossible to meet the letter of the regulation in the way that they are claiming to do. Arguably, their solution makes a sufficient safety improvement that going any further is not justified, but that's like saying driving at 75 is "good enough" to meet the speed limit of 70. Personally, given that earth rods are cheap and easy to install, I'd prefer to have the rod.

Apart from Zappi 2 and Andersen A2 which bypass need for Earth Rod, I also found this from Pod Point;

https://d3h256n3bzippp.cloudfront.net/Earth-Technical.pdf

I would like to go for 100% safety, but is it excessive for a "rare" fault ? And not just thinking how I'm going to hide the "ugly" earth rod, but it's another extra cost to pay for the install of the rod itself.

 

[arg]

Things have moved on very slightly in that there's now a proposed change to regulations out for comment which, if approved, will relax the regulations to allow the PodPoint/Zappi approach.

It's fairly clear that their devices do not meet current regulations, and PodPoint have admitted in other correspondance that to fit them today (without a rod) would require them to be documented as a departure from regulations (with an argument that it offers "equivalent safety"). I have not heard them answer the issue that doing so would make them ineligible for the OLEV grant, which requires adherence to the regulations and the Code of Practice.

 

[ojock]

Thanks @arg - interesting. Although taken from Pod Point's pdf, it seems to suggest they think they're complying and Exception (iii) provides the weight behind their claim;

Pod Point chargers effectively provides equivalent safety measures to the “multipole isolation device” specified in BS7671, and the text in exception (iii) in the 18th Edition (BS7671:2018) includes the statement “Equivalent function-ality [to the multipole isolation device] could be included within the charging equipment”, allowing for the provi-sion of such safety features within the chargepoint.

Do you know when approval might be given ?

I also have a question regarding UMC Commando adapter - apparent Model 3 comes with a 16A adapter - but UMC is capable of 32A - does that mean I would need to purchase a 32A Commando adapter if I got a 32A Commando socket installed ?

Related to this, do I need to consider RCD Type 2 / Earth Rod for the Commando connection ?

 

[WannabeOwner]

apparent Model 3 comes with a 16A adapter - but UMC is capable of 32A - does that mean I would need to purchase a 32A Commando adapter if I got a 32A Commando socket installed ?

There was a recent thread which may answer that: Here's how to charge with 32A commando in UK

 

[ojock]

There was a recent thread which may answer that: Here's how to charge with 32A commando in UK

Brilliant, it does, RCD Type B not needed due to loophole.

Stupid question - but no Earth Rod needed for Commando ?

 

[arg]

Stupid question - but no Earth Rod needed for Commando ?

Needed in the same circumstances as for a fixed chargepoint at that location (ie. outdoors and house earth is PME), if it's a socket for EV charging.

You could cheat and pretend that it's just for your lawnmower...

Thanks @arg - interesting. Although taken from Pod Point's pdf, it seems to suggest they think they're complying and Exception (iii) provides the weight behind their claim;

They are clearly wrong (and have admitted it in other correspondence that I have seen), especially as Exception (iv) is now proposed to be added.

Do you know when approval might be given ?

"Early 2020" is the official line, assuming it in fact passes. If it does, then these 'jumping the gun' installations will be effectively OK. If it's rejected or some extra requirements get added, PodPoint could find themselves in a spot of bother.

Brilliant, it does, RCD Type B not needed due to loophole.

Still needs at least Type-A and must be double-pole (which is not at all expensive but could be omitted by accident or to save 50p).

 

[ojock]

Needed in the same circumstances as for a fixed chargepoint at that location (ie. outdoors and house earth is PME), if it's a socket for EV charging.

You could cheat and pretend that it's just for your lawnmower...

Thanks again @arg - can I read that also as "indoor" commando negates need for earth rod ?

 

[arg]

Thanks again @arg - can I read that also as "indoor" commando negates need for earth rod ?

Indoor in the sense that it's going to be used indoors (eg. inside a garage where the car fits in the garage), yes.

If it's just inside the door and you intend to use it outside, no.

It's all about being able to touch "true earth" (eg. feet in a puddle on the drive) at the same time as metalwork attached to the PME earth - bearing in mind that the car bodywork will be connected to whatever earth you use at the chargepoint. There's no difference at all between commando socket and hard-wired chargepoint here - the commando socket provides the earth to the portable chargepoint plugged into it.

 

[jimbo_hippo]

On another thread, a poster posted this video about Zappi 2 which apparently doesn't need Earth rod;

Is this correct? Or somewhat correct which reduces the risk to an acceptable level that make earth rod redundant? Or just marketing spiel?

I have to admit I'm baffled by the science, I read the threads and try to absorb but my brain is frying! So despite my attempts, I will probably have to accept the "simple" answer that if it meets the regulations then it's a "pass", but I'm still happy to learn from all the replies from the very helpful posters on here.

I fancied the Zappi but my installer says there’s a significant lead time that counts in months not weeks for him and there have been some ‘challenges’ with the more advanced solar integration elements. In order to not be putting bad spin on a product which is obviously well thought out and very appealing, bear in mind that’s the message from my installer not Zappi themselves so if anyone has found otherwise, feel free to correct me.