Which types of vehicles have a hard clearcoat? I see swirls/scratches in pretty much all of them out there.
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Tesla Paint issues and coatings
- Thread starter Yvan Lacroix
- Start date
Which types of vehicles have a hard clearcoat? I see swirls/scratches in pretty much all of them out there.
Just for argument sake (and maybe to make some of us feel better about our expenditures)...If you really want to not worry about swirls, scratches, soft paint, etc. just wrap the whole thing in XPEL Ultimate and call it a day
For an "aggressively but properly maintained" vehicle (with the intent of avoiding/minimizing swirls/scratches/etc.), what would you project as the 10 year expense of that (as an alternative to getting a wrap such as the XPEL Ultimate) if such maintenance was done professionally (perhaps with a "regular customer" discount)?
MoeMistry
Former Vendor
Cars like Chevy Corvette, last generations, not sure about the new one. Audi paint is pretty hard. Most American cars such as GM, Ford, Chevy, etc.
On the really softer side, New Porsche 991 Carreras, most Japanese cars, newer BMWs
There are cars with Ceramic Clear Coats that are suppose to have more scratch resistance than traditional clear coats. Mercedes Benz, Ferrari, Rolls Royce. We haven't found them to be dramatically different.
In the the end, it comes down to care. Swirls and scratches can only be managed, not avoided.
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I cannot speak for other professional shops.
But, assuming it's a daily driver and you're doing a semi-annual service, nano coating, and a wash every two weeks, you're looking at 2-3X the cost of a full wrap on a MS over a 10-year period.
However, getting a full wrap doesn't mean you're done. You'll still have to wash the car and you'll still have to perform annual/semi-annual detailings to properly care for the vehicle.
Where the benefit of a full wrap comes in is insurance policy. No worries about rock chips on any panel, bumper scuffs and scrapes can have a less dramatic effect, no swirls or scratches, etc. You're basically a good candidate if things like I mentioned above REALLY bother you if it were to happen on paint.
Hope this helps
So MoeMistry you're basically saying that wrapping the car with XPEL or 3MVenture shield is a better protector and investment over th long term? I'm getting a Roadster that has the Tesla Armor on it and I want to wrap areas that I'm sure Tesla did not wrap like door sills, upper part of hood, etc. I was deciding between completing the wrap or putting the opti coat Pro. I drive my car daily and in the winter have to worry about road salt, etc.
MoeMistry
Former Vendor
Wrapping and applying a coating are two completely different things.
Applying a coating is to protect everything from the elements and wear/tear.
Applying something like Paint Armour or XPEL is protecting against rock chips, road debris, scuffs, etc. I would pass on ventureshield. Durability isn't very good compared to 3M or XPEL.
MoeMistry
Former Vendor
Do you ever apply both Paint Armour and Opti-coat? Btw Ventureshield is a 3M product
Yes...you can apply paint armour first, or similar product, then apply a product like opti-coat on the film to further protect it.
3M bought ventureshield a few years ago...to my knowledge, ventureshield is still a ventureshield product, not a re-labeled 3M product.
MoeMistry
Former Vendor
Here's an article I wrote in a local Porsche magazine:
A Wash Is Just A Wash....Right?
What I'm trying to lead you to is how simple and rewarding a wash can be if you have the correct technique and products. So let's start with most basic of ingredients, soap. There's a reason you see soaps specifically made for automotive finish. Paint has its own natural oils that are there to maintain gloss, and in some areas, flexibility. By using dish soap, cheap automotive soap, or petroleum-based soaps, you're robbing the finish of its oils.
The solution is using a high-quality, pH balanced soap that is gentle on the finish and is effective at removing grime. You'll notice one main difference between a high quality soap opposed to an inferior one: how little product is used. There are several high quality soaps from P21S, Sonax, Lumiere, einszett, etc. Spending a little extra on the soap also saves the wax on the car from diminishing prematurely.
What you wash the car with is just as important as what soap is used. Your choices are wide: synthetic sheepskin, microfiber, foam sponge, or my favorite, all-natural Australian or New Zealand sheepskin. Synthetic sheepskin is a cheaper alternative to the real version. I find the nap to become stiff, and almost brillo-like, after a few washes. Microfiber is soft in the beginning but traps dirt; over time, you end up rubbing the embedded dirt into the finish causing scratches. The foam sponge isn't all that bad, but once again, you run the risk of dirt getting trapped in the cells of the sponge. The reason why I prefer natural sheepskin is that it's the softest of all choices. Natural sheepskin is very gentle and won't harm the finish.
Now that you've got the right soap and mitt, what will you dry with? Your choices are simple: cotton bath towel, synthetic chamois, natural chamois, microfiber drying cloth, or air dry. The cotton towel is old technology and should be left in the shower. The nap of the towel will actually scratch today's soft automotive finish. Synthetic chamois trap dirt over time and scratch the finish. Anyone who's used a natural chamois can attest to its glue-like suction power, not to mention the oil used in the tanning process strips the wax from the finish. The newest technology replacing chamois is microfiber drying cloths. The soft microfiber allows you to feel the finish and know when you need to polish or clay again. The ideal way of drying is to air dry or force air dry. If you have the convenience of using de-ionized water, you can simply air dry or use a forced air dryer such as an Airmax. The beauty of the Airmax is that it has a dual stage filtration system, heated air, and dual stage motors. This yields you clean and powerful air in a compact unit. The result is drying without ever touching the finish.
Finally, the water you use is important. How many times do you find yourself chasing the sun and working fast to prevent water spots when washing? This not only leads to potential damage, but it simply takes the fun out of caring for your car. Enter de-ionized water. DI water systems simply take the Calcium and Magnesium ions, the hard water ingredients, and exchange them into Hydrogen and Hydroxide ions. Result…pure H2O. CR Spotless makes an excellent system. The units start at $299.[SUP]99[/SUP] DI Water gives you pure water without any dissolved solids. Translation…no water spots! Even in direct sunlight.
I hope this article has shed some light on how important such a simple task can be. Stay clean my friends!
A Wash Is Just A Wash....Right?
If there's one aspect of detailing that I'd say is most important yet overlooked, it would be washing. Think about it; you pay hundreds, maybe thousands, to get a proper detail. You're given a car that is almost flawless and has never looked so great. But now what? What are you going to do to keep it looking this way? Well, this is where it gets puzzling. Do you take it to the car wash, pay a detailer at the office, or do it yourself? The first two choices are the least labor intensive. I mean, how hard is to take the car to the local Chevron or Auto Spa, hand over the keys to some guy you don't know, and a latte and 20 minutes later, your car is shiny and clean. Or, let's step it up a notch and hand it over to the local wash guy that makes his rounds at your office. Surely he must do a much better job, and you never left the office. Well my friends, this convenience comes at a cost. The cost may be swirls, scratches, a dent that you know wasn't there before but you're being told it was. Who knows what else.What I'm trying to lead you to is how simple and rewarding a wash can be if you have the correct technique and products. So let's start with most basic of ingredients, soap. There's a reason you see soaps specifically made for automotive finish. Paint has its own natural oils that are there to maintain gloss, and in some areas, flexibility. By using dish soap, cheap automotive soap, or petroleum-based soaps, you're robbing the finish of its oils.
The solution is using a high-quality, pH balanced soap that is gentle on the finish and is effective at removing grime. You'll notice one main difference between a high quality soap opposed to an inferior one: how little product is used. There are several high quality soaps from P21S, Sonax, Lumiere, einszett, etc. Spending a little extra on the soap also saves the wax on the car from diminishing prematurely.
What you wash the car with is just as important as what soap is used. Your choices are wide: synthetic sheepskin, microfiber, foam sponge, or my favorite, all-natural Australian or New Zealand sheepskin. Synthetic sheepskin is a cheaper alternative to the real version. I find the nap to become stiff, and almost brillo-like, after a few washes. Microfiber is soft in the beginning but traps dirt; over time, you end up rubbing the embedded dirt into the finish causing scratches. The foam sponge isn't all that bad, but once again, you run the risk of dirt getting trapped in the cells of the sponge. The reason why I prefer natural sheepskin is that it's the softest of all choices. Natural sheepskin is very gentle and won't harm the finish.
Now that you've got the right soap and mitt, what will you dry with? Your choices are simple: cotton bath towel, synthetic chamois, natural chamois, microfiber drying cloth, or air dry. The cotton towel is old technology and should be left in the shower. The nap of the towel will actually scratch today's soft automotive finish. Synthetic chamois trap dirt over time and scratch the finish. Anyone who's used a natural chamois can attest to its glue-like suction power, not to mention the oil used in the tanning process strips the wax from the finish. The newest technology replacing chamois is microfiber drying cloths. The soft microfiber allows you to feel the finish and know when you need to polish or clay again. The ideal way of drying is to air dry or force air dry. If you have the convenience of using de-ionized water, you can simply air dry or use a forced air dryer such as an Airmax. The beauty of the Airmax is that it has a dual stage filtration system, heated air, and dual stage motors. This yields you clean and powerful air in a compact unit. The result is drying without ever touching the finish.
Finally, the water you use is important. How many times do you find yourself chasing the sun and working fast to prevent water spots when washing? This not only leads to potential damage, but it simply takes the fun out of caring for your car. Enter de-ionized water. DI water systems simply take the Calcium and Magnesium ions, the hard water ingredients, and exchange them into Hydrogen and Hydroxide ions. Result…pure H2O. CR Spotless makes an excellent system. The units start at $299.[SUP]99[/SUP] DI Water gives you pure water without any dissolved solids. Translation…no water spots! Even in direct sunlight.
I hope this article has shed some light on how important such a simple task can be. Stay clean my friends!
The article by MoeMistry is right on the money for a traditional soap and water wash. Over the last 10 years many professionals have switched to low water washing with great success, there are 2 main versions of a low water wash, the first is called waterless, this is a spray and wipe operation, and in the right circumstances gives a very safe wash, those of you in southern climates that only have to deal with light dust and road grime can benefit from this technology. The second is a rinseless wash. With the rinseless wash you still have a bucket, but no suds, In my shops we use a foam sponge, others use a microfibre or sheepskin mitt to wash with. As the name says you are washing the car, but not rinsing it, so if you have water use, or run off restrictions this method is legal, and is a very safe way to clean your car. One product in particular is Optimum No Rinse, it is 100% compatible with Opti Coat Pro, provides additional protection with each wash, and has proven to be a very safe product.
kevincwelch
Active Member
I have no qualms with the waterless washes. Give Ultima Waterless Wash+ or Optimum Opticlean a try. For the salt and mud, I probably will pressure wash it off and then use ONR.
I have been using the rinseless ONR and finally got enough nerve to try the "wax" version ONRWW and I think I like it even better. Only other truly waterless wash I used was Croftgate but I think I had some clear coat staining issues in couple spots so I stopped. It may have been user error but I have not had problems with ONR/ONRWW. I have never tried Ultima WW but have seen many positive reviews of it.
I like what Moe has said. By the way, do yourself a favor. Just because somebody is supposedly a "paint correction detailer", ask them in advance what media they use. If they use a chamois, run screaming. I avoided swirling/spider webbing in my car until I made the mistake of "assuming" a paint correction person knew how to wash/dry a car (even though I wasn't getting paint correction done). Personally, the wool mitts scare me because I think they tend to hold too much debris vs. the microfiber chenille. I really like the good chenille wash mitts.
I like what Moe has said. By the way, do yourself a favor. Just because somebody is supposedly a "paint correction detailer", ask them in advance what media they use. If they use a chamois, run screaming. I avoided swirling/spider webbing in my car until I made the mistake of "assuming" a paint correction person knew how to wash/dry a car (even though I wasn't getting paint correction done). Personally, the wool mitts scare me because I think they tend to hold too much debris vs. the microfiber chenille. I really like the good chenille wash mitts.
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MoeMistry
Former Vendor
I tried using a mf mitt and can tell you it WILL put microscratches in the paint. Trick is, it needs to be washed EVERY time you use it in the washing machine to get all the dirt out from previous wash.
If you use a quality 100% all-natural lambs wool, you're not going to have any issue; especially if you do it the way I mentioned previously. It's the synthetic lambs wool you have to worry about. After a few washes, they might as well take off stuck-on food on a frying pan
MoeMistry
Former Vendor
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