Tesla Pickup Truck

[Red Sage]

Quite surprised Tesla doesn't already offer 120/240 volt outlets all things considered....

I suspect Tesla Motors considered the option to be too gimmicky, sort of like the constant requests to have solar panels on the roof to power fans in the car. That said, they do offer USB ports to charge/power handheld devices... And there is also the 12v port, which can be used with a 3rd party inverter to plugin other accessories or appliances as needed.

 

[GoTslaGo]

I suspect Tesla Motors considered the option to be too gimmicky, sort of like the constant requests to have solar panels on the roof to power fans in the car. That said, they do offer USB ports to charge/power handheld devices... And there is also the 12v port, which can be used with a 3rd party inverter to plugin other accessories or appliances as needed.

So you mean I can't plug my UMC into the car to charge the battery?

 

[Red Sage]

Maybe I am. But from a quick search (and using F-150 as a example) I noticed that it struggles to sell outside US, with only 119.000 units sold in Canada in 2015. I actually don't know if it is sold in any other countries but if there was a market where you say so, wouldn't Ford be there already? And if using high capacity motors that spend gas at the same rate as a SpaceX rocket spends kerosene, they could easily adapt one of those excellent Duratec engines. Or using a diesel engine with high torque.

Keep in mind I'm not saying that it's a bad idea from Tesla! I think it's a great idea if only they don't make a car for US market only. They're not there yet. They need to sell worldwide. And when I'm thinking worldwide I'm thinking more in markets like China. Do you envision an F-150 selling well in China?

There are a lot of people who actively lobbied for the Tesla Model ☰ to be a fully electric analog to the Volkswagen Golf, instead of the BMW 3-Series. The Golf is among the best selling vehicles in the world. It moves around 1,000,000 units each year. That places it solidly in the top two or top three vehicles sold every year, with the other two typically being the Toyota Corolla and Ford Focus. You know what comes in at number four? The Ford F-Series. That's what. And while the cars are renowned for their fuel economy and emissions compliance, the F-Series is pretty much the diametric opposite, using a whole bunch more fuel per mile and exasperating quite a bit more ppm per vehicle.

So, considering The MISSION that Tesla Motors has before them, it makes sense to displace the pickup trucks by proving electric drive is best. And how better to do that than go after the macho heart of truck driving by showing that all of the 'HEAVY DUTY' applications that have here-to-fore been immune to emissions regulations. Now that moratorium is set to change, but traditional automobile manufacturers appear to be placing their bets on building lightweight bodies, using smaller motors, and adding hybrids to their lineup, in addition to promoting the use of diesel for maximum hauling applications. As has been noted above by RobStark of GreyWind, once that guaraneed annual gold mine is tapped by another provider in a convincing fashion, someone will have to seriously consider switching to electric drive, or risk extinction.

 

[Red Sage]

Maybe I am. But from a quick search (and using F-150 as a example) I noticed that it struggles to sell outside US, with only 119.000 units sold in Canada in 2015.

One more thing... As popular as the Volkswagen Golf is worldwide, selling around 1,000,000 vehicles each year...? It isn't that much loved in the United States of America. Yes, Tesla Motors is heavily focused on US sales, and with good reason. It is strange that Toyota Corolla, Honda Civic, Hyundai Elantra, Chevrolet Cruze, Nissan Sentra, and Ford Focus are all able to take leading positions in US sales, well within the top twenty-five sellers, but the Volkswagen Golf doesn't even crack the top 30 in one of its best sales years of recent memory.

During 2015 there were 94,527 BMW 3-Series sold in the US. That was one of only four times in several years that less than 100,000 had been sold in the US. And that is only because BMW decided to separate 3-Series and 4-Series sales for the first time in 2015. But it still hasn't moved less than 90,000 units at any point in the past 14 years.

That same year, Volkswagen Golf sold 65,308 units here. The Golf has only sold more than 40,000 units in the US four times in the past fourteen years. Maybe there was a model change of some sort, because in 2014, only 33,675 of the Golf reached new owners on these shores.

Through the first four months of 2016, the Golf has sold 357,962 units worldwide, while the 3-Series moved 97,038. During that same time frame, the 3-Series sold 18,781 in the US, and the Golf only managed 17,241 here. The 3-Series will probably maintain that advantage in the US, and extend it further in the months to come.

The BMW 3-Series is the best selling premium passenger car in the US, as well as the best selling in the world. Tesla Motors has made the correct strategic decisions by going after the best vehicles in each market segment, with a focus on US sales first, and worldwide sales second. Taking on Mercedes-Benz S-Class with the Model S, and BMW 3-Series with the Model ☰. So naturally, they would take on the Ford F-Series with a pickup truck.

http://focus2move.com/world-best-selling-car/

2015 Year End U.S. Passenger Car Sales Rankings - Top 160 Best-Selling Cars In America - Every Car Ranked - GOOD CAR BAD CAR

 

[wdolson]

The Model 3's dimensions came closer to a midsize than the compact sedan BMW 3 Series. It's about the same dimensions as a Camry, Legacy, Accord, Fusion, or Malibu. I suspect a lot of people in that market niche will get upsold into a Model 3. I think the BMW 5 Series is a midsize sedan about the same size as the others mentioned above. BMW is in the luxury sedan class and those others are in the family sedan class, but they are similar sizes.

Tesla's design philosophy has been influenced by European luxury cars because Elon Musk is a fan of them, but they have also been influenced by more mainstream cars because they have some designers from major car makers. I believe one of the chief designers is from Mazda.

The Model 3 is targeted as a mass market car and ultimately it will live or die on its mass appeal. It will be compared to the 3 Series because Elon has talked about comparisons with BMW and it will be priced like a 3 Series, but it really is aimed at the Camry and Accord buyers. It may collapse the market for midsized family sedans in the US.

Internationally the Model 3 is a large car compared to what's popular, but the Model 3 has to be successful in the US first.

 

[Red Sage]

The Model 3's dimensions came closer to a midsize than the compact sedan BMW 3 Series. It's about the same dimensions as a Camry, Legacy, Accord, Fusion, or Malibu. I suspect a lot of people in that market niche will get upsold into a Model 3. I think the BMW 5 Series is a midsize sedan about the same size as the others mentioned above. BMW is in the luxury sedan class and those others are in the family sedan class, but they are similar sizes.

I believe the Tesla Model ☰ will have the footprint that most associate with a Compact car, but will definitely have the interior and cargo space that will earn it a Midsize qualification from the EPA. That's OK by me, because the latest versions of Toyota Corolla, Honda Civic, and Hyundai Elantra are also vehicles that have that TARDIS-like quality of being larger on the inside than expected by their exterior dimensions. They are all now Midsize cars officially, due to their interior volume. Meanwhile, BMW 3-Series, AUDI A4, Mercedes-Benz C-Class, Infiniti G50, and Lexus IS are all Compact cars.

Tesla's design philosophy has been influenced by European luxury cars because Elon Musk is a fan of them, but they have also been influenced by more mainstream cars because they have some designers from major car makers. I believe one of the chief designers is from Mazda.

Franz Von Holzhausen has previously worked for/with Volkswagen (New Beetle), General Motors (Saturn Sky, Pontiac Solstice, Opel GT), and most recently Mazda, before being brought on at Tesla Motors. I have a lot of faith in his design sensibility. I think that from Elon Musk's perspective, targeting the BMW 3-Series has been a logical strategic move, simply because it is one of those few vehicle series that are lauded by automotive journalists, and vehicle enthusiasts that also sells to hundreds of thousands of buyers worldwide every year. So, BMW must have done something right with the car, even though I personally doubt it allows the type of driving Nirvana it is renowned for...

The Model 3 is targeted as a mass market car and ultimately it will live or die on its mass appeal. It will be compared to the 3 Series because Elon has talked about comparisons with BMW and it will be priced like a 3 Series, but it really is aimed at the Camry and Accord buyers. It may collapse the market for midsized family sedans in the US.

Yes. And since the Corolla, Civic, and Elantra are all now Midsize cars, it targets them as well. The Model ☰ will get buyers from all over the place. At least people who want an AUDI A4 can get a Volkswagen Jetta instead... But for most people who consider moving up-market, there is no compelling reason to do so. A BMW 320i doesn't necessarily offer any more driving excitement than a Camry LE. A Lexus IS isn't more moving than a Kia Optima. An Acura TLX isn't going to be much more impressive than an Accord. It's all just more of the same, for more money, to window shoppers. But when the curious come to check out the Model ☰ they will be taken aback by the tremendous difference between that car and any other they might have considered for the money, or less. Once the benefit of electric drive is exposed, there's no going back.

Internationally the Model 3 is a large car compared to what's popular, but the Model 3 has to be successful in the US first.

Agreed. I believe this is why Tesla Motors is exploring legal action to open up all States to its preferred means of doing business. Once they are able to actively sell their cars everywhere, with no interference from 'independent franchised dealerships' whom they have no contracts with, the ability to offer real test drives and fully educate potential customers on the benefits of driving electric... I am confident the Model ☰ will be immensely successful here.

 

[andrerodpt]

The Model 3's dimensions came closer to a midsize than the compact sedan BMW 3 Series. It's about the same dimensions as a Camry, Legacy, Accord, Fusion, or Malibu. I suspect a lot of people in that market niche will get upsold into a Model 3. I think the BMW 5 Series is a midsize sedan about the same size as the others mentioned above. BMW is in the luxury sedan class and those others are in the family sedan class, but they are similar sizes.

Tesla's design philosophy has been influenced by European luxury cars because Elon Musk is a fan of them, but they have also been influenced by more mainstream cars because they have some designers from major car makers. I believe one of the chief designers is from Mazda.

The Model 3 is targeted as a mass market car and ultimately it will live or die on its mass appeal. It will be compared to the 3 Series because Elon has talked about comparisons with BMW and it will be priced like a 3 Series, but it really is aimed at the Camry and Accord buyers. It may collapse the market for midsized family sedans in the US.

Internationally the Model 3 is a large car compared to what's popular, but the Model 3 has to be successful in the US first.

I think the Model 3 is just about the right size for most European countries.
Can they sell a load more if they make a car like a Ford Focus or a VW Golf? With the right price they would conquer Europe.

A truck like Ford F-series is mostly for US (and Canada). I don't see it sell so well outside those regions.
But I concede that those regions are the most important for Tesla right now, where they can sell a lot (10% market share is still a lot of trucks!) and with high margins.

Cars we (europeans) dig:
- SUVs (from small like Renault Captur, Peugeot 3008, Nissan Qashqai, to big Audi Q-series, Range Rover Evoque, etc)
- Station Wagons (think of any 3 volume car and I'm sure the SW variant sells at least the same amount except on Mercedes brand)
- Sport Hatchbacks (3 doors cars with a sporting hedge - think Ford Focus ST, VW Golf GTI, Renault Megane Sport)
- Small frugal cars to commute (Peugeot 208, Renault Clio, Ford Fiesta, etc)

 

[wdolson]

I believe the Tesla Model ☰ will have the footprint that most associate with a Compact car, but will definitely have the interior and cargo space that will earn it a Midsize qualification from the EPA. That's OK by me, because the latest versions of Toyota Corolla, Honda Civic, and Hyundai Elantra are also vehicles that have that TARDIS-like quality of being larger on the inside than expected by their exterior dimensions. They are all now Midsize cars officially, due to their interior volume. Meanwhile, BMW 3-Series, AUDI A4, Mercedes-Benz C-Class, Infiniti G50, and Lexus IS are all Compact cars.

We already know the 3's dimensions. It's 184 inches long, 74.2 inches wide, and a wheelbase of 113 inches. The EPA classifies cars by interior volume, but the Highway Loss Data Institute goes by wheelbase and overall length. By that measure the Model 3 is Midsize by length, but large by wheelbase. But then the Ford Fusion is a large car by wheelbase too.

By the HLDI measure the Corolla and Civic are compact/small cars.

Franz Von Holzhausen has previously worked for/with Volkswagen (New Beetle), General Motors (Saturn Sky, Pontiac Solstice, Opel GT), and most recently Mazda, before being brought on at Tesla Motors. I have a lot of faith in his design sensibility. I think that from Elon Musk's perspective, targeting the BMW 3-Series has been a logical strategic move, simply because it is one of those few vehicle series that are lauded by automotive journalists, and vehicle enthusiasts that also sells to hundreds of thousands of buyers worldwide every year. So, BMW must have done something right with the car, even though I personally doubt it allows the type of driving Nirvana it is renowned for...

I have never considered getting a BMW or a Mercedes. I have never understood what the big deal was.

Yes. And since the Corolla, Civic, and Elantra are all now Midsize cars, it targets them as well. The Model ☰ will get buyers from all over the place. At least people who want an AUDI A4 can get a Volkswagen Jetta instead... But for most people who consider moving up-market, there is no compelling reason to do so. A BMW 320i doesn't necessarily offer any more driving excitement than a Camry LE. A Lexus IS isn't more moving than a Kia Optima. An Acura TLX isn't going to be much more impressive than an Accord. It's all just more of the same, for more money, to window shoppers. But when the curious come to check out the Model ☰ they will be taken aback by the tremendous difference between that car and any other they might have considered for the money, or less. Once the benefit of electric drive is exposed, there's no going back.

I suspect the EPA might change their classifications one of these days because so many cars are getting shoved into the midsized category and it's getting lopsided. It's the class every car model wants to be in because so many people shop in that category, but it's a bit nuts when one car maker has multiple vehicles in that category.

Right now Tesla ownership is still a somewhat exclusive club. When many middle class neighborhoods have at least one Tesla owner, that will change everything. People will learn from their neighbor down the street all the advantages and they will want one too.

Agreed. I believe this is why Tesla Motors is exploring legal action to open up all States to its preferred means of doing business. Once they are able to actively sell their cars everywhere, with no interference from 'independent franchised dealerships' whom they have no contracts with, the ability to offer real test drives and fully educate potential customers on the benefits of driving electric... I am confident the Model ☰ will be immensely successful here.

They do need to sort out the craziness with the dealership laws. If the US Supreme Court heard it, they would probably rule in Tesla's favor. On the left of the court you have unfair practices against a green company and among the pro-free market justices you have laws blocking free trade and favoring one established business model over a newer business model.

That may be where they are aiming to take it, but it takes quite a bit to get a case before SCOTUS.

 

[Red Sage]

We already know the 3's dimensions. It's 184 inches long, 74.2 inches wide, and a wheelbase of 113 inches. The EPA classifies cars by interior volume, but the Highway Loss Data Institute goes by wheelbase and overall length. By that measure the Model 3 is Midsize by length, but large by wheelbase. But then the Ford Fusion is a large car by wheelbase too.

By the HLDI measure the Corolla and Civic are compact/small cars.

Per Wikipedia, Car Classification falls into two main categories: Not Well Defined/Vernacular and Defined by Law or Regulation. Highway Loss Data Institute (HLDI) is part of the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS) and neither of them is an official government organization. That's why I use the parameters from the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and/or National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) instead. Far as I can tell, IIHS has never tested any Tesla Motors vehicle. Unfortunately, when using vernacular, if it looks like a duck, and walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it just might be a cabbage. So, I'd rather stick with clearly defined official automobile classifications.

I have never considered getting a BMW or a Mercedes. I have never understood what the big deal was.

That, we have in common. I do believe that the Mercedes-Benz CLS-Class is stunningly beautiful though. Strangely, almost no one buys them at all. It is outsold by even the Porsche Panamera. If I hadn't discovered the Tesla Motors Model S, I might have been convinced to pick up a used CLS550 some day as a Sunday-go-to-meeting car or whatever. Also strange, for all its length and weight, the CLS-Class is a Compact car, because there is very little useful passenger or cargo space in it.

I suspect the EPA might change their classifications one of these days because so many cars are getting shoved into the midsized category and it's getting lopsided. It's the class every car model wants to be in because so many people shop in that category, but it's a bit nuts when one car maker has multiple vehicles in that category.

It seems that most are interested in releasing vehicles that will be perceived as 'Compact SUVs', no matter their actual configuration, because that is where sales are growing most quickly. The market segment that was abandoned by Suzuki, but taken on wholeheartedly by Toyota and Honda now has entries from Nissan, Chevrolet, and Buick and a whole bunch more to come. The EPA might expand their classifications to include size ratings for SUVs, instead of calling some vehicles 'Wagons', but I do not believe they'll go much further than that.

Right now Tesla ownership is still a somewhat exclusive club. When many middle class neighborhoods have at least one Tesla owner, that will change everything. People will learn from their neighbor down the street all the advantages and they will want one too.

Tesla Motors has always counted on word-of-mouth to expand their influence. I'm sure that for some old-timers it is weird to look at a world without Oldsmobile, Pontiac, Mercury, Plymouth, AMC, Eagle, and Studebaker marques... While seeing name plates such as Hyundai and Kia growing more popular than Buick or Mazda. So they are liable to be extra-special wary of 'Tesla' when it comes to their neighborhood. Hopefully, they will be curious, though, and willing to learn.

They do need to sort out the craziness with the dealership laws. If the US Supreme Court heard it, they would probably rule in Tesla's favor. On the left of the court you have unfair practices against a green company and among the pro-free market justices you have laws blocking free trade and favoring one established business model over a newer business model.

That may be where they are aiming to take it, but it takes quite a bit to get a case before SCOTUS.

Yes, it certainly makes sense to fight this out in Federal Court, to have an answer outright. Tesla Motors should win at any Federal level with a suit. It would only go to the Supreme Court upon appeal -- by the 'independent franchised dealerships' -- who would find it hard pressed to explain how it could be somehow 'unfair' for a company that has no contract with them to sell its own product direct to Consumers. People are quick to point out Apple and Microsoft opening their own retail locations. But I go even further back, to DELL Computer (a company that started in Texas), selling PCs direct via mail order and online that grew to sell its products through traditional retailers as well. But still sells direct through its own website even today.

Where are the protesters to DELL's way of doing business? There aren't any. Why has no retailer filed an injunction to prevent DELL from selling direct? Because that would be dumb. Why is it perfectly fine for manufacturers in numerous industries to sell direct to end users, but not for automobile manufacturers? No reasonable cause for it to be disallowed at all. Sure, there may be some that have a well reasoned protest against DELL's means of doing business. But that doesn't stop them from doing it anyway. DELL has the right to sink or swim, fail or succeed, as they will or won't. So should Tesla Motors.

And that's just another tech company. When you get into donuts and coffee -- Krispy-Kreme and Starbucks -- it gets even more ridiculous. Dunkin' Donuts and Winchell's are probably doing better than they could have hoped because of the aggressive expansion of the other two companies. Did they file injunctions to limit the number of Starbucks locations? Did they claim foul in favor of Customers, saying that Starbucks was overcharging for coffee? Did retailers at food chains demand that Starbucks stop selling their own brand of coffee beans through their own stores? No. None of those ridiculous things happened. Instead, competitors made the most of the new market environment, improved their locations, products, and service -- while also raising their prices.

 

[FlatSix911]

More design concepts ... Tesla Pickup Truck imagined by rendering artist [Gallery]

 

[wdolson]

Per Wikipedia, Car Classification falls into two main categories: Not Well Defined/Vernacular and Defined by Law or Regulation. Highway Loss Data Institute (HLDI) is part of the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS) and neither of them is an official government organization. That's why I use the parameters from the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and/or National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) instead. Far as I can tell, IIHS has never tested any Tesla Motors vehicle. Unfortunately, when using vernacular, if it looks like a duck, and walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it just might be a cabbage. So, I'd rather stick with clearly defined official automobile classifications.

I think the EPA needs to revisit their classifications because changes in automotive design have skewed their classifications. Car makers, knowing where the lines are drawn in the US market and they have nudged their designs to fit into more popular classes. The examples you gave are cars that have been nudged to fit into the mid-sized class.

That, we have in common. I do believe that the Mercedes-Benz CLS-Class is stunningly beautiful though. Strangely, almost no one buys them at all. It is outsold by even the Porsche Panamera. If I hadn't discovered the Tesla Motors Model S, I might have been convinced to pick up a used CLS550 some day as a Sunday-go-to-meeting car or whatever. Also strange, for all its length and weight, the CLS-Class is a Compact car, because there is very little useful passenger or cargo space in it.

I pay so little attention to Mercedes I had to look it up. OK, but if I was going to but an ICE sedan it would be something like a Taurus or a LaCrosse. I looked at both of those, but they fell short of my criteria.

It seems that most are interested in releasing vehicles that will be perceived as 'Compact SUVs', no matter their actual configuration, because that is where sales are growing most quickly. The market segment that was abandoned by Suzuki, but taken on wholeheartedly by Toyota and Honda now has entries from Nissan, Chevrolet, and Buick and a whole bunch more to come. The EPA might expand their classifications to include size ratings for SUVs, instead of calling some vehicles 'Wagons', but I do not believe they'll go much further than that.

I think Tesla would have to make a new, smaller platform than the Model 3 to make a compact SUV.

With the Tesla pickup I'm sure their initial target is fleet sales. All they need to do is make a truck with a cost of ownership that's about 20% less than an ICE pickup and they will own that market as soon as they can build enough to meet demand. Personal truck sales will not be critical for success.

Tesla Motors has always counted on word-of-mouth to expand their influence. I'm sure that for some old-timers it is weird to look at a world without Oldsmobile, Pontiac, Mercury, Plymouth, AMC, Eagle, and Studebaker marques... While seeing name plates such as Hyundai and Kia growing more popular than Buick or Mazda. So they are liable to be extra-special wary of 'Tesla' when it comes to their neighborhood. Hopefully, they will be curious, though, and willing to learn.

Packard's sales slogan was "ask the man who owns one". Tesla's could easily be an update of that "ask the person who owns one".

Once someone gets a chance to experience a Tesla, there is a high probability they will at minimum be positively disposed to the brand, even if they aren't completely sold yet.

Yes, it certainly makes sense to fight this out in Federal Court, to have an answer outright. Tesla Motors should win at any Federal level with a suit. It would only go to the Supreme Court upon appeal -- by the 'independent franchised dealerships' -- who would find it hard pressed to explain how it could be somehow 'unfair' for a company that has no contract with them to sell its own product direct to Consumers. People are quick to point out Apple and Microsoft opening their own retail locations. But I go even further back, to DELL Computer (a company that started in Texas), selling PCs direct via mail order and online that grew to sell its products through traditional retailers as well. But still sells direct through its own website even today.

Where are the protesters to DELL's way of doing business? There aren't any. Why has no retailer filed an injunction to prevent DELL from selling direct? Because that would be dumb. Why is it perfectly fine for manufacturers in numerous industries to sell direct to end users, but not for automobile manufacturers? No reasonable cause for it to be disallowed at all. Sure, there may be some that have a well reasoned protest against DELL's means of doing business. But that doesn't stop them from doing it anyway. DELL has the right to sink or swim, fail or succeed, as they will or won't. So should Tesla Motors.

And that's just another tech company. When you get into donuts and coffee -- Krispy-Kreme and Starbucks -- it gets even more ridiculous. Dunkin' Donuts and Winchell's are probably doing better than they could have hoped because of the aggressive expansion of the other two companies. Did they file injunctions to limit the number of Starbucks locations? Did they claim foul in favor of Customers, saying that Starbucks was overcharging for coffee? Did retailers at food chains demand that Starbucks stop selling their own brand of coffee beans through their own stores? No. None of those ridiculous things happened. Instead, competitors made the most of the new market environment, improved their locations, products, and service -- while also raising their prices.

Ultimately the way dealerships are regulated is an artificial thing created to deal with a problem in the early days of the car business that is not really a problem anymore. The dealerships have grown to be politically strong and they are using their influence to keep the old laws in place when technology has made them obsolescent.

Bob Lutz has claimed BMW tried the direct sales model in the 1970s when he was there and it failed, but that was before the internet and before anyone came along with a car that could largely sell itself via word of mouth. Tesla today is proving that direct sales can work and the dealers are either scared or in denial that Tesla has come up with a better way to sell cars.

There are many examples of newer sales techniques replacing older models. That's true for Amazon pushing out brick and mortar stores as well as places like Walmart pushing out mom and pop stores. It's just that none of those other business niches had laws that the old school retailers could exploit to keep out the new technologies.

We probably should get back to the Tesla pickup plans or people will start complaining about being off topic.

 

[1208]

Probably a repost but I can't go through 25 pages.

 

[WATTS-UP]

That is the best looking pick up rendering that I have seen. Let hope that Tesla doesn’t go from ugly to uglier.

 

[FlatSix911]

That is the best looking pick up rendering that I have seen. Let hope that Tesla doesn’t go from ugly to uglier.

A TElcamino!

 

[sublimaze1]

I am not sure that this has been discussed, and I am far too lazy to search through this thread to confirm or refute:

I am in the middle of a Dallas-Destin trip (McKinney to Blue Mountain Beach, to be precise) and have noted a few things. As I am fairly near the max weight in cargo, destroying aero with the car-top carrier and the 10x10 canopy on whispbars (let's equate that to maybe pulling a trailer), I have seen the following:

(1) a 50-75% increase in wH/mi consumption (normal for me is 333 .... this trip sees 405-425+)

(2) in the 102 degree east Texas heat, with these figures, the AC becomes a low priority for the computer and is robbed of its cooling power to protect the battery pack.

I am certain that Tesla is aware of this, but it is one (or two) areas that they will need to consider if they are going to make a true pickup ... notwithstanding range ... that functions within some set of parameters that the "drivetrain" would consider normal.

WJ

 

[WATTS-UP]

The Telcamino should be a full bed 4 X 8. With or without the club cab.

 

[Snow Drift]

Model P is such an obvious next step. Pickup trucks are the top choice (#1, 2, 3 are Fseries, Silverado and Ram in 2016) in the US. If you want to change the whole country's view of EV and alternative fuels you need to include the white collar truck drivers and their bosses. Especially in oil rich areas.

I think of the Model P 90D of more a GMC Sierra Denali, Cadillac or Lincoln Blackwood. A truck that the foreman or owner drives, which is both luxury and utility, to retain respect from the workers and shows accomplishment. Then a simpler, Model P 75D, is the equivalent Chevy or Ford version, which can be available for workers.

The actual R&D shouldn't be too much more than the X considering it already hauls 5,000lbs. A little development and a true truck competitor will emerge from Tesla.

 

[1208]

Pickups are becoming more popular with builders here in the UK, they are choosing them over vans.

 

[Red Sage]

More design concepts ... Tesla Pickup Truck imagined by rendering artist [Gallery]

View attachment 187438

Interesting. I haven't taken the time to learn The GIMP inside and out, and I no longer have access to Photoshop. Otherwise, I'd do a version of my own. This does look similar to what I'd like to see, but I'd make a few changes. But yes, unibody construction, no separate bed, flying buttresses from roofline to bedrails -- those are some of the design elements I'd expect. I do expect it to be of dually design, so wider in the back, with frameless glass instead of the airplane style doors, and overall a lot more aerodynamic. Here are some rather poor images I created a long while back:

And some really early sketches I made before realizing it should be a dually:

Here is a link to the discussion where these images were first posted:

Tesla Pick-up Truck ? | Tesla Motors

 

[Red Sage]

I think the EPA needs to revisit their classifications because changes in automotive design have skewed their classifications. Car makers, knowing where the lines are drawn in the US market and they have nudged their designs to fit into more popular classes. The examples you gave are cars that have been nudged to fit into the mid-sized class.

I think that a whole lot of 'nudging' has been done over the past few decades. The US market has caused quite a bit of changes to take place in a lot of product lines. Quite a few have felt it was 'unfair' to 'game the system', but I disagree. If a car meets the letter of the law, that by default means it also supports the spirit of the law.

The Honda Accord was first classified as a Midsize car in 1990, and traditional automobile manufacturers (particularly the Detroit Big Three) protested that assessment. They felt it wasn't truly Midsize, because of its length and weight compared to their own offerings. But they overlooked even then that the classification was based on interior volume and cargo space. The Accord just barely qualified as Midsize, but it DID qualify.

The reason other manufacturers protested is because the Accord also met CAFE regulations, and met CARB requirements to be classified as a Zero Harmful Emissions Vehicle, while also passing all the NTSB/NHTSA safety crash tests with high marks. Oh, and that version of the Accord went on to be the best selling car in the US that year. Detroit didn't like this because it proved all their own points wrong.

They insisted that it was impossible to build safe, small cars. They insisted it was impossible to sell large, fuel efficient cars. They insisted that it was impossible to meet emissions requirements while also building the types of vehicles the American public wanted to buy.

I pay so little attention to Mercedes I had to look it up. OK, but if I was going to but an ICE sedan it would be something like a Taurus or a LaCrosse. I looked at both of those, but they fell short of my criteria.

Oh, I don't even like sedans, generally. It is just amazing to me that the automotive industry is doing a much better job of making them attractive -- to me -- though some more traditional buyers may be put off a bit. The Mercedes-Benz CLS-Class was the first of the more modern 'sports sedans' that caught my eye. Typically, the stodgy, boring, run-of-the-mill styling of European marques does not impress me in the slightest. But the CLS-Class made me think that maybe, one day, when I am ready to 'grow up' I might be able to live with something like that. Though, I have typically avoided both expensive and luxury cars in the past.

I think Tesla would have to make a new, smaller platform than the Model 3 to make a compact SUV.

Why? The Honda CR-V is basically a Civic Tallwagon. As the Civic has grown in size, so has the CR-V. And both have grown in US sales as they've become larger as well. It seems the Tesla Model ☰ as is will be perfectly placed to be a platform to be used to go after the smaller SUV/Crossover market with its Model Y and/or Crossover design.

Currently, the Honda Civic has a 106" wheelbase, while the CR-V has a 103" wheelbase. At 345,647 units sold in 2015, the CR-V was the single best selling SUV in the United States. The Toyota RAV4 came in at #2 with 315,412 units sold. And at #3 was the Ford Escape with 306,492 units. Considering those numbers, Tesla is well placed to take on them all, while absolutely demolishing sales of Acura, AUDI, BMW, Cadillac, Infiniti, Lexus, and Mercedes-Benz offerings in that size class.

With the Tesla pickup I'm sure their initial target is fleet sales. All they need to do is make a truck with a cost of ownership that's about 20% less than an ICE pickup and they will own that market as soon as they can build enough to meet demand. Personal truck sales will not be critical for success.

I think that once Tesla Motors offers a heavy duty long range full sized pickup truck, their success is guaranteed. 300 miles range, with 150+ mile range while towing 15,000 lbs, would mean they could sell every single one they built.

Packard's sales slogan was "ask the man who owns one". Tesla's could easily be an update of that "ask the person who owns one".

Once someone gets a chance to experience a Tesla, there is a high probability they will at minimum be positively disposed to the brand, even if they aren't completely sold yet.

Hence, why NADA is working overtime to make sure as few people as possible have an opportunity to experience a Tesla Motors product first hand in the US. Here's an example of their Scareducation:

Ultimately the way dealerships are regulated is an artificial thing created to deal with a problem in the early days of the car business that is not really a problem anymore. The dealerships have grown to be politically strong and they are using their influence to keep the old laws in place when technology has made them obsolescent.

And yet, for all their strength, the 'independent franchised dealerships' are continually allowed to maintain the fiction that they are mom & pop shops that barely squeeze by on a pitiful profit margin.

Bob Lutz has claimed BMW tried the direct sales model in the 1970s when he was there and it failed, but that was before the internet and before anyone came along with a car that could largely sell itself via word of mouth. Tesla today is proving that direct sales can work and the dealers are either scared or in denial that Tesla has come up with a better way to sell cars.

Precisely.

There are many examples of newer sales techniques replacing older models. That's true for Amazon pushing out brick and mortar stores as well as places like Walmart pushing out mom and pop stores. It's just that none of those other business niches had laws that the old school retailers could exploit to keep out the new technologies.

What gets me is the resistance in Texas. The home of DELL Computer. They manufacture their PCs, and sell them direct, across the US, and around the world. There is no 'protection' for retailers to prevent them from doing so. And though there are now some retailers that sell DELL products, none of those retailers aims to shut down DELL's own website sales. The product isn't illegal. Why should the direct sales method be illegal?

We probably should get back to the Tesla pickup plans or people will start complaining about being off topic.

I believe this discussion is tangentially related to the original post. A compact/mini SUV is today's more popular configuration of a midsize pickup truck after all. And, without being allowed to distribute their products as they see fit, a Tesla Motors full-sized pickup truck may not be able to reach the American public in good numbers, or where most needed. Besides, I posted a few pictures and renderings of a pickup truck design earlier. So, yeah... I'm on topic. Really, I am.