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Tesla range anxiety

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Eclectic - good points. I had a similar problem on that stretch of road in an ICE and ended up going all the way around via 101N and Cloverdale!

The overarching point of adjusting the buffer to the environment is entirely understood. I cruised a boat at sea for almost 5yrs and it's quite analogous to how I would plan anchorages, never wanting to arrive in a strange anchorage in the dark. I always allowed plenty of daylight on my trip plan to allow for the unexpected, and tried to have a second anchorage as a backup.
 
In the many threads I've read on charging and touring, a lot of Tesla owners seem very nervous about arriving with 30miles of range, which we would consider a luxury with the BMW. I'm assuming they know something I don't which is why they are nervous. So what is it?

I think part of it is that because the Tesla has so much range compared to other BEVs that are just in-city cars, you will end up driving the Tesla to many more destinations where the charger you intend to use is one you haven't used before. That leads to the following questions:

  • Is the charger I intend to use actually there, or do I have incorrect information?
  • Is that charger working properly?
  • Is it occupied or ICEd?
  • Is that charger going to be fast enough to charge me as I intend within the context of my trip?
  • Do I have a backup charger/plan if I can't use the primary charger for whatever reason?

If your intended charger is a supercharger, most of these questions go away, but with other public chargers, all bets are off. I like having options. I have a Chademo adapter and a host of other charging adapters in the footwell in the back, and I always look at evtripplanner.com and plugshare.com to make sure I know where other charging options are.
 
Sure, 30 miles is plenty of buffer under most circumstances. But I had this happen to me on only my second road trip:

25382106474_ef0cd4829d.jpg


I don't know why it did that but I was pretty surprised (I have a working hypothesis, however). Now, I obviously had plenty of range and wasn't at all worried about making the Supercharger station. My concern was about what would happen on the way home, which is all uphill with huge elevation gain? If that sort of glitch happened again before I made the final climb to my home that would be a problem; there is no "plan B" charging option out here in the boonies. (I made it without issues by going a bit more slowly than I otherwise might have done.)

So, I plan to keep an ample buffer until I get comfortable with those screen projections...

YMMV!
 
I have had both experiences going to Los Angeles.

I am no stranger to range anxiety from taking the VW e-Golf past its 86 mile range frequently.

In 2015 I drove from SF to LA with a rented 2014 Tesla Model S P85, and because I was a noob, I did not do the full trip charge. We ended up hating most of the trip because we ended up driving like 70mph or less while all the ICE's where passing us 80+, and we ended up drafting behind trucks at 55 to make it to the next supercharger. Range anxiety was real. On the way back my wife insisted that we don't charge first at spacex/hawthorne because she doesn't like the area, and we went to the wrong tejon ranch exit, which brought us not to the supercharger but to a state park, and had to backtrack to arrive again with range anxiety at the supercharger. Felt like we added 3 hours to the trip.

2016 we did the same trip again, this time in a rented 2015 P90DL, and because I remembered last time I took the day off for picking it up in the morning, drove to Dublin having a lot of fun on the way, did a full trip charge, drove it home and gave it another 3 hours on the L2 charger to have a full trip charge before heading out with the family. No range anxiety at all, it told us that we would have to only charge for 20 minutes at Harris Ranch. We staid for an hour eating the overpriced mediocre definitely non-organic food, and went on our way, would have to charge only 10 minutes at Tejon ranch but did 20 minutes for good measure and went to our destination in LA. Always able to drive it to its full potential, but actually most of the time using autopilot which made for a very relaxing trip. The way back was similar, I went on my own to spacex the night before we left, did a full trip charge, and we ended up picking up some nice mexican food from titos tacos as we headed out, and taking it with us to Tejon ranch where we charged while eating and having a coffee at starbucks :) No range anxiety at any point. Headed on over Harris ranch (skipping the restaurant, just charging 20 minutes) and Gilroy to fill it back up before returning it. Felt like half the trip to me, because autopilot makes for a very relaxing drive, whenever traffic or other drivers become annoying you just turn it on. It also helped when I had strong sidewinds and struggled to keep the car in a straight line against the wind. Turned on AP and it did it all solid as a rock. I heard with crosswinds this can be less good, but in my case it was effortless after turning it on.

Now that we ordered the X it will be interesting to see where it lands range wise between the two experiences, especially since the X will be more affected by wind than the S. But its a 90D without the P and L so that should help, and I am not a noob anymore :)
 
Range Anxiety was one of the top things I needed to get over before placing an order for my MS. I spent a lot of quality time playing with EV Trip Planner -- various regular routes I take, occasional road trips, and a few desired future trips to understand what MPH and elevation does against range and where intermediate charging may be required. I put my Range Anxiety concerns into three buckets. I've eliminated (or dealt with) 2 of them completely, and still working on longer road trips as I travel to new distant locations and experience for myself what weather can do to range, and what charging availability is like. Here's some thoughts and what I've done to reduce my personal concerns:

ERRANDS, DAILY COMMUTES & SHORT TRIPS (no intermediate daily charging)
Range Anxiety for S90s and above IMHO basically becomes nonexistent after a few days of use. With your BEV experience, this won't be a concern ... you'll just want to understand how far a "short trip on a single charge" can be and what the levers impacting range may be -- see "road trips" next. ;) I assume of course you don't become addicted to Ludicrous Mode, where all bets are off with what impact that may have on each of your charges.

ROAD TRIPS (intermediate charging required before arriving at your destination)
  • It's important to not unexpectedly go nuts with MPH out on the open highway beyond whatever you estimated you were going to do, or your planning will be way off. No matter how much I read about speed being the range killer, until I purposely played with it for myself on longer trips, I didn't have as good of an appreciation. My old cruising speed rules-of-thumb with my former Hybrids, ICE and their sweet spots are NOT the same with my MS.
  • MS Energy Monitor and the 17" Trip Graph does a good job showing estimated remaining range at your destination. Put in your next stop (destination or charger location) to the Nav; Keep it visible on the lower part of your 17" and you'll be good to go. It is the BEST thing MS does to eliminate my Range Anxiety concerns; Seems to be pretty dang close; and is far better than watching Rated Range or other alternative estimates MS provides as a substitute for an ICE fuel gauge.
  • Unlike my Hybrid/ICE days where I could plan and pretty much count on an ETA within a few minutes most of the time, I think a lot about BEV charging time impact with my MS, and what if an SpC is down or all stalls are full when I get there. Another SpC just isn't across the street like gas stations are for an ICE most of the time. A little more flexibility on the arrival time is now necessary, and long-trip duration IS increased (even if it may be easier on the soul, taking more and longer breaks with a BEV than I'm used to.) Again, EV Trip Planner will help provide an ETA, but you must remember to add in your own estimate for the time it takes for charging at each intermediate stop.
  • If traveling to a new destination, I use ChargePoint to identify possible charging locations on the route I'm likely going to travel. This allows me to possibly alter routes ahead of time so I have faster/better charging options available if needed -- especially if there is possibility of inclement weather.
  • Elevation changes impacts range more than you may expect or have seen with relatively short trips in your i3. EV Trip Planner does a great job handling this in it's estimates, but my point is, you can't as easily guess the 1-2 MPG impact as I once did on certain trips. There is a new paradigm to become accustomed to with how significant elevation climbs can impact range on your MS (and this compounds at higher MPH).
  • Impacts of unexpected weather -- rain, wind (especially heading into and cross-winds), snow/hail, cold temps are considerations that can rather dramatically reduce range beyond what the same trip will consume in beautiful weather conditions. There are many other threads on this with rules-of-thumb estimates (could be a total of 10%-30% impact +/-), but it basically comes down to your risk tolerance in what range impact these things may have and what you want to plan for. In the winter or if storms are in the forecast, I think about this more (I never did in my Hybrid/ICE days other than if I should take my AWD SUV or more fun RWD convertible), and plan for longer charging sessions when estimating destination arrival time.
  • If you're going to leave your MS for a longer period of time at your destination and it can't be plugged-in, you do need to think about daily vampire loss a bit, as your battery will loose range every day for a number of reasons. There are other threads on this, but best case I loose 1-3 miles/day, and it goes up from there if e.g. you don't turn the MS energy options on (like I keep on by default), park in extreme cold or hot climates where MS may turn your heat or aircon on to protect the battery, or you forget to circumvent the "USB Phantom Playing" bug. This isn't a big deal to me now, but was until I learned what the considerations were and what levers I had to protect range.
After all that, I'm fine taking a road trip in my MS -- it's a joy; but I do a lot more thinking about it than I used to in my Hybrid/ICE days, and will likely always be that way far more than others here are. It's my nature being a generally risk adverse sorta guy.

HOME EMERGENCIES
An important question I think is, "Is MS your only vehicle, or do you have easy alternative transportation if an emergency arises and you need to GO while you're at home but may not have sufficient charge in your MS?"

Many MS owners here don't note if they have another vehicle in their stable, that perhaps may still be an ICE -- which provides them great comfort in such a scenario. Me? I consolidated from owing both a Hybrid and ICE, now down to only my MS. I have remote (elderly) family that could call and I need to GO. The same sort of issue could be if a trip to an emergency room or vet came up for anyone. E.g. my closest SpC is 21 miles one-way in the wrong direction if the family call were to come in, so I always want to maintain 50+ RR if I can to get where I need to go. I use my home 80A circuit and HPWC to reduce my range anxiety in this situation given the speed it could charge my depleted battery I needed it.​

NORMAL CHARGING METHOD
If I don't have a planned errand the rest of the day, I always plug my MS into my home 80A HPWC each time I park. MS maintains my charge at 90% (or within 8-10 rated range miles of that if parked and not driven for multiple days), starts charging at midnight when my TOU rates kick-in, and because of my dual charges, can theoretically complete a full charge within the 5 hours I have lowest rates available to me year-round.​

THE NET
...so the NET of all that for me?
  • I keep my MS "at the ready" with a 90% charge in my garage most of the time, and don't think about range most of the time. My S90D does exactly what I wanted, and why I would never consider any other BEV as my single vehicle -- eliminating the need for me to worry about the battery most of the time.
  • For longer trips, I prefer planning to have 20% remaining Rated Range where my next charge will come from, but will let it be even lower if arriving at home where I know I can get an immediate charge if need be. If there is inclement weather possibilities, I add something over 10% contingency to that depending on the circumstances.
One of, if not the best explanations of how to manage energy consumption. A 'must read' for all new owners.

Sign him to a contract!
 
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BertL – You stated very well what I was thinking. The first week I had my S90D I decided to take a road trip from Bozeman, MT to Butte about a 75 mile drive over the Continental Divide. Speed limit here is 80. I was traveling relatively fast initially until I realized the range was dwindling quickly. This was in January with temperatures averaging around 9 degrees and strong winds blowing east. I was traveling west and mostly uphill. Little did I know the heating system in the MS did not compare to my Volvo XC. I needed the heat on and fan blowing relatively high in order for the windows to not fog up. The battery range was sinking drastically- I had my husband on the phone during my trip for fear I would need road side assistance and could tell him the approximate location if I lost cell phone range. Needless to say, I traveled the pass at a snail’s pace. Thankfully going downhill was a relief. Living in Cold weather areas with mountains makes one consider every possible contingency. Let me say when the weather warms to 50 or 60 my husband and I are in 7th heaven.
 
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I totally eliminated any chance of Model S range anxiety... by owning and driving a Nissan Leaf for 3 years... The practical highway range on my Leaf was about 68 miles... I used it to commute round trip to my volunteer job that was 58 miles round trip. The "range" meter on the Leaf is affectionately called by almost everyone that has ever owned one the "Guess-O-Meter". I would start almost every day with the GOM reading 101 miles on a full charge. Make my 58 mile commute at 65mph for 44 of the 58 miles and arrive home safely with about 9-14 miles remaining on the GOM.
Compared to that, My Model S85D starts every day at 242 miles of range with a 90% charge and after making the same 58 mile round trip commute it has between 178 and 182 miles remaining. That's driving 75 mph for 44 of the 58 miles not 65.
I find the range prediction capabilities on my Model S to be superb.
 
What is your working hypothesis?

It has to be a trip reroute, right? Inquiring minds want to know!

YMMV indeed. What's your hypothesis? How did this happen?
I take it that others haven't seen this phenomenon reported before; I was wondering about that.

When I first saw that glitch in the trip plot I was concerned ("freaked" might be a better way to put it) that my car had a defect in the battery, battery controller, or something was seriously wrong with the algorithm that projects trip range.

However, I had been driving in an unusual pattern that may have confused the trip algorithm because I had been experimenting with a lot of coasting. At one point I did about five miles coasting because the pitch was perfect for doing so at about the speed limit (and there is no traffic on an obscure highway like Utah SH 46, so no need to worry about other cars). Then when I got to US 191 it undulates with numerous rather steep, lengthy, down grades followed by steep up grades. Since there was essentially no traffic I tried coasting down the hills but because they were steeper than before I hit some rather high speeds, likely approaching terminal velocity for the grade. This is a very energy inefficient thing to do. [Proper hypermiling technique for down grades is to regen downhill slowly then switch to coasting near the bottom to hit the speed limit at the bottom and use that momentum to carry the car part way back up the next hill (or a long way on a level stretch: the Model S coasts really well, as other mountain drivers likely know).]

So, my hypothesis is that the high speed coasting combined with a low GPS speed caused the trip algorithm to recalculate my energy use as being very negative. Since it didn't correct the plot when I resumed driving normally I presume that I used up (wasted) a significant amount of energy doing what I did. But that huge straight drop in the plot still has me puzzled and I hope that it doesn't happen again. Next time I make that trip I will try something else and see how it shakes out. Range is not an issue on that downhill leg of the trip. It is the uphill return trip that had me a bit concerned, given the glitch (but I made it easily with a 90% charge on my S60):

25756228350_c9c610d106.jpg


On thing I observed with charging was that my 90% was 178 miles before the trip and 185 miles after two Supercharging sessions, the second to 90%. I presume that this is something that others have seen as well. 185 miles at 90% is better than I was expecting for a car almost two years old (build date May 2014).
 
I don't know about the Tesla algorithm, yet, but the BMW i3 algorithm combines the usage over the last 30km with the current consumption to compute it's projected range. The coasting may have caused the Tesla to underestimate for a period of time, then it "caught up". But that would definitely be an unnerving sight on the display!
 
OK @dgpcolorado, stop throwing gasoline on @Boatguy's fire!

The BMW algorithm, I presume like the eGolf and also most ICE cars, factors in recent usage into some kind of moving average to give a completely opaque "remaining miles" number that can go all over the place if you live somewhere hilly.

The primary Tesla metric is "rated miles". That is an absolute number. Remaining battery capacity kWh * epa rated miles per kWh. The graph that @dgpcolorado is showing is a secondary trip projection that takes into account: your destination, elevation changes, your driving habits (speed) on the trip, and could someday be programmed to factor in wind and temperature. This one changes as you approach destination to factor in your performance, and apparently it can be "gamed" with unusual driving techniques. There is a third projection on the main energy graph that shows projected remaining miles based upon either your recent 5, 15, or 30 mile performance (depending on how you set it up), or "instantaneous" based upon your usage as of this moment.

A non-EV-geek can live with "rated miles". It is a great metric because it does not change, and you learn how to factor things in with experience. The trip projection is extremely useful and accurate when you program in a destination (e.g., usage to the next supercharger?). The Tesla gives you MUCH more range information to work with and many more options than any other car I've driven (EV or ICE).

If you are getting close, you learn driving habits to stretch (e.g., slow down, turn down heat). Frankly, IMO, anybody who runs down their battery in a Tesla brought it upon themselves.
 
OK @dgpcolorado, stop throwing gasoline on @Boatguy's fire!

The BMW algorithm, I presume like the eGolf and also most ICE cars, factors in recent usage into some kind of moving average to give a completely opaque "remaining miles" number that can go all over the place if you live somewhere hilly.

The primary Tesla metric is "rated miles". That is an absolute number. Remaining battery capacity kWh * epa rated miles per kWh. The graph that @dgpcolorado is showing is a secondary trip projection that takes into account: your destination, elevation changes, your driving habits (speed) on the trip, and could someday be programmed to factor in wind and temperature. This one changes as you approach destination to factor in your performance, and apparently it can be "gamed" with unusual driving techniques. There is a third projection on the main energy graph that shows projected remaining miles based upon either your recent 5, 15, or 30 mile performance (depending on how you set it up), or "instantaneous" based upon your usage as of this moment.

A non-EV-geek can live with "rated miles". It is a great metric because it does not change, and you learn how to factor things in with experience. The trip projection is extremely useful and accurate when you program in a destination (e.g., usage to the next supercharger?). The Tesla gives you MUCH more range information to work with and many more options than any other car I've driven (EV or ICE).

If you are getting close, you learn driving habits to stretch (e.g., slow down, turn down heat). Frankly, IMO, anybody who runs down their battery in a Tesla brought it upon themselves.
Thank you for the excellent summary.
 
boatguy,

I look at the picture of your monohull and after reading your posts I wonder how much longer you are going to debate "pulling the plug" on the purchase of a Model S or X. I am a pilot and a sailor and owning a Model S adds the fun of operating a vehicle that is complex and exhibits new technology not unlike a boat or a plane.

If you are a true sailor, you will love the challenge and knowledge gained from Model S ownership. Remember that sailing uses the energy of the wind and sun for both powering the sails and adding energy to your solar panels for charging your shore batteries. The Model S allows you to harness the same energy to propel you to your boat. Plug into the shore power at the marina while you are out on the water and come back to a charged up vehicle.

The only serious planning you need to consider with the Model S is when you plan a road trip , like sailing a long distance. You should always take in consideration the weather and terrain on a long trip with the Model S. Use EvTripplanner and an aid just as you would check weather, tide schedules and anchorages if you were sailing.

You will find many similarities between Model S and boat ownership. With the Model S you can use it every day as a daily driver regardless of where you live unlike a boat.
 
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boatguy,

I look at the picture of your monohull and after reading your posts I wonder how much longer you are going to debate "pulling the plug" on the purchase of a Model S or X. I am a pilot and a sailor and owning a Model S adds the fun of operating a vehicle that is complex and exhibits new technology not unlike a boat or a plane.

If you are a true sailor, you will love the challenge and knowledge gained from Model S ownership. Remember that sailing uses the energy of the wind and sun for both powering the sails and adding energy to your solar panels for charging your shore batteries. The Model S allows you to harness the same energy to propel you to your boat. Plug into the shore power at the marina while you are out on the water and come back to a charged up vehicle.

The only serious planning you need to consider with the Model S is when you plan a road trip , like sailing a long distance. You should always take in consideration the weather and terrain on a long trip with the Model S. Use EvTripplanner and an aid just as you would check weather, tide schedules and anchorages if you were sailing.

You will find many similarities between Model S and boat ownership. With the Model S you can use it every day as a daily driver regardless of where you live unlike a boat.
Well I'm a "true sailor" with maybe 30,000nm of ocean sailing. In the boat that is pictured (54') we did about 16,000nm double handed, from Maine to Bora Bora to San Francisco over 4 1/2 years. The dark areas on top and in front of the hard dodger are solar panels.

I've had a BMW EV since 2014 and your right there are a lot of similarities, though we rarely saw shore power, we just ran our engine which also kicked out 300a, like a supercharger, but at only 24v! If only the MS had a decent navigation system.

And yes, I placed my 90D order a few days ago.
 
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