Tesla Sales Banned in New Jersey... hopefully not for long!

[Norbert]

you too don't seem to get it, this was not an anti tesla judgement, it was an anti direct sales judgement by the NJ MVC

I'm not aware of the NJ MVC making an anti direct sales judgment. They claim to have made amendments to reflect what they claim to be existing law (doesn't seem like they have valid arguments for that claim, though).

Tesla seems to have been in talks with law makers about updating/changing the law itself, which may still be in the works (but take a while).

I really cannot think of any manufacturer of autos that skips the dealership level, other than maybe the smallest of customized shops. even bugatti who only sell a handful of cars doesn't sell direct like tesla does

I'm wondering about your use of the term dealership. Of course Tesla would need a dealer license to sell in NJ, and follow all rules related to a dealer license. The disagreement is just over whether a dealer license would/should include the requirement to operate as a franchise business relationship between two parties.

 

[apvbguy]

a) You want a source for facts?? and b) You're the one making a fuss about buying in NJ, but advertising that you live in Florida.

are you assuming that I've always lived in FLA? have you always lived in the same place?

 

[NigelM]

are you assuming that I've always lived in FLA? have you always lived in the same place?

Not assuming anything. I prefer to work with facts.

 

[SwedishAdvocate]

Question: Do auto manufacturers (other than Tesla) sell directly to consumers in countries outside of the US? Or are franchised dealers pretty much the only thing that's used?

I really cannot think of any manufacturer of autos that skips the dealership level, other than maybe the smallest of customized shops. even bugatti who only sell a handful of cars doesn't sell direct like tesla does

As I understand it, currently – of all the markets Tesla are in – or looking to enter, this is only an issue in the US. But I’m only a layman in this regard and could be wrong…

 

[apvbguy]

I'm not aware of the NJ MVC making an anti direct sales judgment. They claim to have made amendments to reflect what they claim to be existing law (doesn't seem like they have valid arguments for that claim, though).

I am not going to attempt to parse their interpretation of the law but in general the law is about direct sales by an auto manufacturer, so the commission's ruling is about direct sales.

Tesla seems to have been in talks with law makers about updating/changing the law itself, which may still be in the works (but take a while).

especially now, seeing how elon and crew have ingratiated themselves with the denizens of the halls of power there.

I'm wondering about your use of the term dealership. Of course Tesla would need a dealer license to sell in NJ, and follow all rules related to a dealer license. The disagreement is just over whether a dealer license would/should include the requirement to operate as a franchise business relationship between two parties.

you're back into trying to play attorney, I'll leave that to the attorneys, dealership in this context is interchangeable with franchisee.

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Not assuming anything. I prefer to work with facts.

what facts are you working with? a screen shot on an internet forum that I could key in to appear that I live on mars? oh I just noticed that you're a mod. I am indeed currently in FLA but even the IP address could be easily manipulated in order to hide my true location.
sir. don't get hung up on this, I can be in FLA and also reside in NJ thousands of people do it, they've even coined a term for this, have you ever heard of snow bird?

 

[dsm363]

Oh, I dunno, because you're participating as part of an open user community that wants Tesla to succeed? You're retired now and can contribute to creating a sustainable economy for the future of mankind?

We're not in it for ourselves here. If you want to sell your services to Tesla, I recommend you send them a resume. You're not going to make inroads with them posting here.

I agree. If he is not angling for a job but feels he can help Tesla and Tesla customers but doesn't want to give away his 'secrets' then either contact Tesla and volunteer to help or ask for a job or he should tell us what we need to do in NJ. Just saying 'I know secrets' and then refusing to provide even vague details is hardly helpful.

 

[apvbguy]

I agree. If he is not angling for a job but feels he can help Tesla and Tesla customers but doesn't want to give away his 'secrets' then either contact Tesla and volunteer to help or ask for a job or he should tell us what we need to do in NJ. Just saying 'I know secrets' and then refusing to provide even vague details is hardly helpful.

how did I have expertise in a matter become I have secrets? sheesh, this like playing telephone in nursery school.

 

[dsm363]

how did I have expertise in a matter become I have secrets? sheesh, this like playing telephone in nursery school.

You've said multiple times you refuse to provide details of your plan or how you'd fight this since why would you give away your expertise for free. Did I miss something?

would you share the recipe for your secret sauce, there are (I hope) far better minds than mine working to solve the conundrum, I will keep my ideas to myself until elon calls for a chat

 

[Lloyd]

=Quote Originally Posted by JRod0802 View Post

Question: Do auto manufacturers (other than Tesla) sell directly to consumers in countries outside of the US? Or are franchised dealers pretty much the only thing that's used?…

Searching I find that Chevrolet has direct market fleet programs to sell direct to large companies and government agencies. I believe that deliveries are made through local dealers in most cases.

http://www.gmfleet.com/


More....... If you click on fleet tools from the above page you CAN PLACE AN ORDER WITH CHEVROLET DIRECTLY WITHOUT GOING THROUGH THE DEALERSHIP!

http://www.gmfleet.com/fleet-tools.html

 

[CalDreamin]

Top Story on Daily Kos - Tesla Ban in New Jersey

Today's top rec'd diary on Daily Kos is about New Jersey's action against Tesla. The diary is overly partisan (IMO), but it's helping to spread news about Tesla and the challenges they are facing.

Daily Kos also has a petition about this issue.

 

[GlennAlanBerry]

Well, there is nothing wrong with a partisan diary on DailyKos... The reaction to this story that I have seen pretty much everywhere I look online is pretty substantially in Tesla's favor. The more coverage, the better.

 

[Norbert]

I am not going to attempt to parse their interpretation of the law but in general the law is about direct sales by an auto manufacturer, so the commission's ruling is about direct sales.

According to them it is only about the interpretation of law, not about making an anti or pro judgement. You are missing the point, and buying into the dealer association's PR.

especially now, seeing how elon and crew have ingratiated themselves with the denizens of the halls of power there.

The best I can tell, this debacle was a huge PR loss for the "halls of power". They tend to notice that. Your "king of the sandcastles" is still subject to the voter's opinion.

you're back into trying to play attorney, I'll leave that to the attorneys, dealership in this context is interchangeable with franchisee.

I am discussing legal matters because the NJ committee claims they are legal matters.

If you say things like "dealership in this context is interchangeable with franchisee", then you are arguing the dealer association's point of view.

It suggests you have given up already. Your "secret" is probably that you would tell Tesla to use franchises.

 

[Krugerrand]

elon is not holding 4 dueces at the NJ table

The game's not over. There are more cards to be drawn. Again, claiming victory so early on in the hand is premature at best.

 

[Robert.Boston]

you're back into trying to play attorney, I'll leave that to the attorneys, dealership in this context is interchangeable with franchisee.

At least in Massachusetts, this distinction was the hinge of the whole discussion. Tesla created an entity in Massachusetts to hold a Class I Dealer license. As an auto dealer, it is subject to all laws and regulations that every franchised dealer faces, e.g. honoring warrantees and providing adequate repair facilities. Tesla isn't seeking to shirk any responsibilities to its customers. The question really boils down to whether New Jersey is going to allow an entity controlled by a manufacturer to act as a dealer, rather than keeping a strict requirement that a franchise arrangement exist with an independent party.

Massachusetts law has no requirement that the entity holding the dealer's license be independent of the manufacturer, so Tesla got its license. New Jersey *may* have this requirement, however, depending upon how you parse the regulations.

I am absolutely certain that Tesla will pursue this both in court and in the New Jersey statehouse. In the meanwhile, it's enjoying the free publicity.

 

[Grendal]

Only the most vocal naysayer or stock shorter has the guts to side with the dealers over Tesla. Dealers are almost universally hated.

 

[ggies07]

I haven't been on here much today and just skimmed the pages and didn't see this link yet:

Poll: Should companies like Tesla be allowed to sell electric cars directly to customers NJ? | NJ.com

 

[TexasEV]

As of now 79.9% said yes Tesla should be allowed to sell cars directly to customers in NJ. Reading the comments it appears the other 20% think they're smarter than everyone else and got a "deal" by having middlemen compete for their business.

 

[SCW-Greg]

... and got a "deal" by having middlemen compete for their business.

See, this is just it. Even with dealers, there's still no competiton. Each dealer's contract is given mini geographic monopolies, so a potential customer often has to really go out of their way to find another dealer with the same car to truly compete. And they do everything they can to not compete, to ultimately extract the most amount of cash from each consumer, without regard.

The whole dealer concept is "antimatter" in every single way. Anything that comes into contact with it loses.

 

[tezco]

As of now 79.9% said yes Tesla should be allowed to sell cars directly to customers in NJ. Reading the comments it appears the other 20% think they're smarter than everyone else and got a "deal" by having middlemen compete for their business.

The best experience I ever had at a "conventional" dealership was purchasing a car essentially from the manufacturer. The dealership had gone bankrupt and the manufacturer temporarily took it over until they could re-franchize the "dealership". Car sold at a very fair price, no pushy salesmen, and absolutely no mention of the typical aftermarket dealership profit makers (undercoating, fabric treatments, extended warranty, clear coat etc.)

 

[moollar]

As I understand it, currently – of all the markets Tesla are in – or looking to enter, this is only an issue in the US. But I’m only a layman in this regard and could be wrong…

I think SA is right. I'm sure Elon has mentioned in the past that this a US specific thing. Definitely not an issue in Australia.