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Tesla Sales Banned in New Jersey... hopefully not for long!
- Thread starter mpt
- Start date
I already did that last month, and it expired yesterday with less than 900 signatures despite notification in this forum: Revised White House Petition Opposing Franchised Dealership Laws
Meanwhile, an earlier related petition that did not mention the commerce clause reached the goal of 100,000 signatures over eight months ago. The White House has not responded. Today I emailed the White House, the DOJ and the FTC asking why this is so. Signatures are still being added to the petition today: allow Tesla Motors to sell directly to consumers in all 50 states. | We the People: Your Voice in Our Government
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Here is a link to the actual proposed bill if anyone would like to read it
http://www.nj.gov/mvc/pdf/About/PRN_2013_138.pdf
http://www.nj.gov/mvc/pdf/About/PRN_2013_138.pdf
The proposal is not finalized. It is not a bill. Just because the Governor proposes it and agrees with it - does not make it 100% a law. The great thing about our country is the checks and balances
. We will see where it goes.IF YOU DO NOT LIVE OR HAVE EVER LIVED IN NEW JERSEY, THEN YOU CANNOT PRETEND TO KNOW HOW POLITICS WORKS HERE. IT IS A DOUBLE EDGED SWORD (LITTERLY). IF THE REPUBLICANS SAY YES, THEN THE DEMOCRATS SAY HELL NO. ANYTHING TO MAKE THE OTHER PARTY LOOK BAD IS ALWAYS GOOD POLITICS IN THIS STATE. MONEY IS THE KEY TO SUCCESS - IT IS BEAUTIFULLY PORTRAYED BY CHRIS CHRISTIE AT THIS EXACT MOMENT. HE GETS PAYED A LITTLE EXTRA DOLLARS FOR CAMPAIGN FUNDS (OR A NICE JOB LINED UP AFTER HIS TERM) AND THEN HE MUST FOLLOW THE ORDER OF THE DONOR. = ]
Let's take a step back and watch politics play its game.
Here is a link to the actual proposed bill if anyone would like to read it
http://www.nj.gov/mvc/pdf/About/PRN_2013_138.pdf
Thanks for the PDF, but it is hard to see what actually changed in the amendment. Does anyone know what actual changes are in the amendment? Or exactly which words have been changed?
And it would seem likely that Tesla may have to lay off people if sales stop in NJ so that makes this section a bit misleading
It seems you are simply making uninformed opinions here. You make these claims without providing evidence that Tesla has done nothing to navigate the political waters, where as in fact, there seems to be plenty of signs that they in fact have committed significant resources to doing so. For example, Take a look at the LinkedIn profile of their VP of Regulatory Affairs, James Chen. You'll notice all the "also viewed" profiles on the right are all attorneys and counsels at Tesla.
Hiring an incremental extra local PR person (which you assume they don't have yet) could have very likely made zero difference in this outcome.
Unless the NJ legislature brings out actual swords, you mean figuratively, not literally.
@Chris, indeed, I hope nothing was finalized today... I'll be glad to not have understood that aspect of NJ politics
fwiw, my point was simply that there was a contradiction from the Governor's administration in saying Tesla was acting outside of existing law, and then voting today to change the rules so Tesla's actions are outside existing laws... if the first claim was so, why the action today...
fwiw, my point was simply that there was a contradiction from the Governor's administration in saying Tesla was acting outside of existing law, and then voting today to change the rules so Tesla's actions are outside existing laws... if the first claim was so, why the action today...
Yes Chris Naps, NJ is a unique one....
Please dont hold me to this but going by the email Tesla sent this morning, the auto franchise laws as the only way to sell directly to consumers have been around since 1937 and while Tesla had gotten a waiver (pretty certain it's not the right legal term) to sell directly to consumers in NJ they knew at some point in the future they were going to have to make their case to get the 1937 laws overturned as their waiver was going to expire at some point in the future (I can't find exact date but I assume it was late-2014 or 2015). What the administration/legislators did today was call a surprise vote to move the waiver expiry date forward to April 1st. One news outlet described it as Christie given Elon the middle-finger. Sounds about right.
Please dont hold me to this but going by the email Tesla sent this morning, the auto franchise laws as the only way to sell directly to consumers have been around since 1937 and while Tesla had gotten a waiver (pretty certain it's not the right legal term) to sell directly to consumers in NJ they knew at some point in the future they were going to have to make their case to get the 1937 laws overturned as their waiver was going to expire at some point in the future (I can't find exact date but I assume it was late-2014 or 2015). What the administration/legislators did today was call a surprise vote to move the waiver expiry date forward to April 1st. One news outlet described it as Christie given Elon the middle-finger. Sounds about right.
@Chris, indeed, I hope nothing was finalized today... I'll be glad to not have understood that aspect of NJ politics
fwiw, my point was simply that there was a contradiction from the Governor's administration in saying Tesla was acting outside of existing law, and then voting today to change the rules so Tesla's actions are outside existing laws... if the first claim was so, why the action today...
I believe you are correct and apvbguy is simply spreading false information. I don't claim to be an expert in NJ law whatsoever, but some form of "proposed amendment", "proposed rule", "proposed requirement" are in almost all these statements in the public comment letter. Seems to strongly indicate change was introduced, and this was not simply extending existing law.
http://www.state.nj.us/mvc/pdf/About/9b_Licensing_Service_Final_Adoption_March_2014.pdf
apvbguy
Banned
they did not hold a vote, this was an ADMINISTRATIVE HEARING conducted by the NJ MOTOR VEHICLE COMMISSION. the MVC in NJ is NOT a legislative body.
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exactly what false info would that be?
this can be found on page #8
Additionally, the Commission has statutory authority to promulgate regulations
enforcing the laws of New Jersey pertaining to the buying and selling of motor
vehicles, and the proposed rules are based on those existing laws
apvbguy, there was indeed a vote today... excerpt from a piece written by the attendees at the meeting who had done the liveblog,
"Unfortunately, even with a turnout which left ‘standing room only’ the NJMVC passed the regulation making it the third state in the US to prohibit the sale of Teslas directly to customers.
After the vote, 14 members people in attendance signed up to speak..."
New Jersey Joins Texas and Arizona as a Non-Tesla State
The question remains, why did the Christie administration make public statements this morning that Tesla knew they could only operate legally if new laws were passed in NJ, but then have one of its commissions pass new regulation prohibiting Tesla's business model? This is a contradiction, and it leaves me to wonder whether the administration's comments this morning were a hasty attempt to confuse the issue and reframe the way the media reported on the story... reporting the Christie administration's assertion that Tesla was acting in bad faith, while attempting to burry Tesla's earlier assertions that the Christie administration was acting in bad faith.
of course, I am not privy as to whether or not the Christie administration suggested to Tesla to offer new legislation... but it seems quite clear to me that Christie admin. action and words today were contradictory.
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Krugerrand
Meow
I tried to find certain laws that are against dealerships in regards to New Jersey and the Motor Vehicle commission:
http://www.tickethelpline.com/lawyer-attorney-1113067.html
To see the actual changes - most of them are bolded or initially expressed in the proposed bill.
EDIT:
Here is what the proposed bill replaced:
Proposed Repeals: N.J.A.C. 16:51-3.8 and 3.9
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apvbguy
Banned
In this case the commission did indeed hold a vote, and I should have been more explicit with my comment. this was not a legislative action is was an action of a regulatory board, now this goes back to the original comment which was a response to a comment that was made that christie could veto the move, and I said that he has no power to veto a commissions legally promulgated regulation he can only veto votes of the legislature.
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a matter of semantics, it was a clarification of laws currently on the books, the rule change is just a new interpretation of old law.
apvbguy
Banned
yes you can register and title a tesla, this ruling just addresses who can sell the NEW vehicle.
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