Tesla says "Gray area for the warranty" and says I drained it [12V covered under warranty - resolved]

[RGiezen]

Do you think the following is an acceptable explanation when a tesla reduces 100km in 5 days without using and with an error code (e-182) that the low voltage battery must be replaced. See image at the end.

Answer from Tesla Netherlands:

"Your Model 3 manual also states that “drawing down to 0% may damage other components or may require replacement (for example, the low-voltage battery). In these cases, the repair and/or transport costs are for your own account. Costs due to an empty battery are not covered”.

This same manual talks about a discharge rate of 1% per day, however this varies depending on environmental factors (such as weather), vehicle configuration and the settings selected on the touchscreen. For this reason I also contacted my colleagues from Service and they indicate that it is normal to lose 5% daily, especially if Sentry Mode and/or Pre-Conditioning are also used."


I checked the facts:
Sunday April 10 2022: I left my car parked in the garage at 100km
Friday April 15 2022: I see on my app 0km
I ask my son to check the car and he made the attached image with the error message.
Then if it is normal the car reduce 5% per day I would expect max reduction is 30km (6 days between april 10 april 15 times 5% per day). And not zero!!

So with this experience they would me to trust them and transport the car myself. What can I do..

 

[Sophias_dad]

The key here is 'low voltage battery', the 12V battery in the frunk. That's not the one that the 1% or 5% is referring to, and the picture from your son isn't showing the charge level of the HV battery.

If everything is working, the HV battery should charge the LV battery as needed. Perhaps the LV battery developed a fault and the charging circuit decided to let it die rather than discharge the HV battery, or the charging circuit has failed. Or perhaps you have extra external loads on the 12V system, like an extra dashcam or other accessory.


I am more than a little surprised that they told you to drive it, as other 12V failures have required immediate shutdown, or said clearly on the screen "If you turn this car off, its not turning back on" or something pretty close. Additionally, the 12V battery swap is easily done via a service ranger(assuming there are some in the Netherlands)

 

[Ther0ck]

LFP battery ?

What is the current SOC beside the KM ?

Sentry on 24/7 ? This drains up to 1% an hour.

 

[E90alex]

What features did you have on? Sentry mode? We’re you constantly checking on the car status using the app while away?

Why did you leave the car parked with such low HV battery charge for long periods without leaving it plugged in?

How old is the car? 12V battery failure/replacement is pretty common after a few years.

 

[GtiMart]

There are two different cases, depending on how you use the car. IF the car is left alone and can enter its sleep mode, it consumes only 20-25w of power continuously. That means around 500wh per day. That would be less that 1% SOC. However, the car will wake up to charge the 12V eventually. Let's call it 1% SOC per day...
The other situation is when you never let the car sleep. Using Sentry Mode or smart summon prevent the car from sleeping. Triggering cabin overheat protection or launching the mobile app's UI wake the car up, and it's impossible to say for how long it will stay awake. When awake the car consumes closer to 200-250w, so almost ten times as much as when sleeping. You could see 5, 7 or more percent drop per day.

That is NORMAL consumption. No degradation, your battery is not bad in that situation.

 

[P3dStealth]

That's just the 12v battery in the frunk. 12v battery is only around $80 in the USA. Not a big deal you can change it yourself. That or you can take it out, put it on a battery reconditioner if you have one or know someone that does. There is a chance it will come back to life.

 

[thettj]

Then if it is normal the car reduce 5% per day I would expect max reduction is 30km (6 days between april 10 april 15 times 5% per day). And not zero!!

5% a day is 30%, not 30km. let's say it's a model 3 RWD 60KWh, 30% is around 100-150km.

 

[philly4]

Do you think the following is an acceptable explanation

Based on the information you provided, I don't see an issue with Tesla's response or think your car operated abnormaly (it operated exactly as expected).

Your 12v battery needs to be replaced. It may have been caused by draining your high voltage battery...it may have just died because they have a limited life span....but as soon as you drain your HV battery to zero, Tesla doesn't cover the 12v battery under warranty. That's the way I read it.

 

[jjrandorin]

Do you think the following is an acceptable explanation when a tesla reduces 100km in 5 days without using and with an error code (e-182) that the low voltage battery must be replaced. See image at the end.

Answer from Tesla Netherlands:

"Your Model 3 manual also states that “drawing down to 0% may damage other components or may require replacement (for example, the low-voltage battery). In these cases, the repair and/or transport costs are for your own account. Costs due to an empty battery are not covered”.

This same manual talks about a discharge rate of 1% per day, however this varies depending on environmental factors (such as weather), vehicle configuration and the settings selected on the touchscreen. For this reason I also contacted my colleagues from Service and they indicate that it is normal to lose 5% daily, especially if Sentry Mode and/or Pre-Conditioning are also used."


I checked the facts:
Sunday April 10 2022: I left my car parked in the garage at 100km
Friday April 15 2022: I see on my app 0km
I ask my son to check the car and he made the attached image with the error message.
Then if it is normal the car reduce 5% per day I would expect max reduction is 30km (6 days between april 10 april 15 times 5% per day). And not zero!!

So with this experience they would me to trust them and transport the car myself. What can I do..

Did I miss where you confirmed that you dont use sentry mode, cabin overheat protection, and also have never (at any point) used ANY third party applicaton that can access your car?

 

[patrick40363]

Do you think the following is an acceptable explanation when a tesla reduces 100km in 5 days without using and with an error code (e-182) that the low voltage battery must be replaced. See image at the end.

Answer from Tesla Netherlands:

"Your Model 3 manual also states that “drawing down to 0% may damage other components or may require replacement (for example, the low-voltage battery). In these cases, the repair and/or transport costs are for your own account. Costs due to an empty battery are not covered”.

This same manual talks about a discharge rate of 1% per day, however this varies depending on environmental factors (such as weather), vehicle configuration and the settings selected on the touchscreen. For this reason I also contacted my colleagues from Service and they indicate that it is normal to lose 5% daily, especially if Sentry Mode and/or Pre-Conditioning are also used."


I checked the facts:
Sunday April 10 2022: I left my car parked in the garage at 100km
Friday April 15 2022: I see on my app 0km
I ask my son to check the car and he made the attached image with the error message.
Then if it is normal the car reduce 5% per day I would expect max reduction is 30km (6 days between april 10 april 15 times 5% per day). And not zero!!

So with this experience they would me to trust them and transport the car myself. What can I do..

You need a new 12V battery.

 

[roblab]

I am more than a little surprised that they told you to drive it, as other 12V failures have required immediate shutdown, or said clearly on the screen "If you turn this car off, its not turning back on" or something pretty close. Additionally, the 12V battery swap is easily done via a service ranger(assuming there are some in the Netherlands)

If Tesla thinks it's driveable after looking at it, why should YOU determine it's not? I agree that the first step would be to replace the 12v battery, but other than that, it sounds like Tesla looked at it and determined that it was OK. I hope someone checked the battery fluid levels at least. One low cell will incapacitate a 12v battery. You don't need to pay for a service ranger when 12v batteries are available at every gas station.

 

[philly4]

I am more than a little surprised that they told you to drive it,

Maybe I missed it....where does the OP say Tesla told him to drive it?

 

[Sophias_dad]

Maybe I missed it....where does the OP say Tesla told him to drive it?

"So with this experience they would me to trust them and transport the car myself. " was in OP's first post. Perhaps I misinterpreted. Doing my best autocorrect replaced this 'would' with 'told'.

 

[RGiezen]

The key here is 'low voltage battery', the 12V battery in the frunk. That's not the one that the 1% or 5% is referring to, and the picture from your son isn't showing the charge level of the HV battery.

If everything is working, the HV battery should charge the LV battery as needed. Perhaps the LV battery developed a fault and the charging circuit decided to let it die rather than discharge the HV battery, or the charging circuit has failed. Or perhaps you have extra external loads on the 12V system, like an extra dashcam or other accessory.


I am more than a little surprised that they told you to drive it, as other 12V failures have required immediate shutdown, or said clearly on the screen "If you turn this car off, its not turning back on" or something pretty close. Additionally, the 12V battery swap is easily done via a service ranger(assuming there are some in the Netherlands)

Hi the level of the HV battery when my son made the picture was zero. The issue is that Tesla tells me that it is normal that the battery return to zero from 97km in 5 days. The car was not driving. It was parked while I was away for business and this is what we found after 5 days.

 

[RGiezen]

LFP battery ?

What is the current SOC beside the KM ?

Sentry on 24/7 ? This drains up to 1% an hour.

According to my app sentry is off. But Tesla tells me that they see it is on? And is this also consuming if not used, I never used it. LFP I dont know. It is a 21 model and only 15k km. SOC I dont know what that is?

 

[Sophias_dad]

Hi the level of the HV battery when my son made the picture was zero. The issue is that Tesla tells me that it is normal that the battery return to zero from 97km in 5 days. The car was not driving. It was parked while I was away for business and this is what we found after 5 days.

Sentry and other stuff should shut itself off at 20% on the main battery.

I wonder if there's some SW bug in play, since there's another very active thread today complaining(reasonably so) about unusually high drain while parked.(and saying Sentry is off)

You gotta get that car some charging!

 

[RGiezen]

What features did you have on? Sentry mode? We’re you constantly checking on the car status using the app while away?

Why did you leave the car parked with such low HV battery charge for long periods without leaving it plugged in?

How old is the car? 12V battery failure/replacement is pretty common after a few years.

According to Tesla sentry was on. I never used it and in my app it indicates off. Strange..

I thought it is safe to leave the car parked for 5 days with 96 KM charge 1/4th of a normal (80%) charge. When we wanted to re-charge it was too late. Do you also think this is normal?

The car is not yet a year old (Tesla model 3 performance) and only 15k kilometers

 

[RGiezen]

There are two different cases, depending on how you use the car. IF the car is left alone and can enter its sleep mode, it consumes only 20-25w of power continuously. That means around 500wh per day. That would be less that 1% SOC. However, the car will wake up to charge the 12V eventually. Let's call it 1% SOC per day...
The other situation is when you never let the car sleep. Using Sentry Mode or smart summon prevent the car from sleeping. Triggering cabin overheat protection or launching the mobile app's UI wake the car up, and it's impossible to say for how long it will stay awake. When awake the car consumes closer to 200-250w, so almost ten times as much as when sleeping. You could see 5, 7 or more percent drop per day.

That is NORMAL consumption. No degradation, your battery is not bad in that situation.

So meaning at this worst case scenario it will be lets say 7%. So the battery should never be empty after 5 days starting at 96 km. So Why for Tesla this is then the conclusion and decide not to give me better support for it. I am left alone with the problem and am asked to call a car transport etc..

 

[Sophias_dad]

According to Tesla sentry was on. I never used it and in my app it indicates off. Strange..

I thought it is safe to leave the car parked for 5 days with 96 KM charge 1/4th of a normal (80%) charge. When we wanted to re-charge it was too late. Do you also think this is normal?

The car is not yet a year old (Tesla model 3 performance) and only 15k kilometers

It should have been fine, and even now the car should be 'recoverable'. Get the hood open and give a jumpstart to the 12V, which will allow the charge port to open and charging to begin. The 12V might even be chargeable and not need to get replaced.

The report from the Tesla app probably can no longer be trusted since it can't connect to the car anymore.

 

[RGiezen]

That's just the 12v battery in the frunk. 12v battery is only around $80 in the USA. Not a big deal you can change it yourself. That or you can take it out, put it on a battery reconditioner if you have one or know someone that does. There is a chance it will come back to life.

The car is still under warrenty, less than a year old and 15k km. I dont think it is wise to do this myself. I would expect great service though?