Tesla semi is ill conceived...

[WannabeOwner]

125 milliseconds from the decision point.

Need to make sure the guy behind is also driving a Tesla !!

 

[Saghost]

Need to make sure the guy behind is also driving a Tesla !!

People driving way inside their reaction time is actually one of our biggest problems these days IMHO, and a major cause of traffic delays and accidents.

 

[WannabeOwner]

We had a major advertising campaign in the UK some years ago - "Only a fool breaks the two second rule" ... I don't think I've ever met anyone who remembers the slogan ... and I've since read that other countries recommend much longer gaps

In France they have Chevrons painted in the carriage way and road signs to keep two between you and the car in front (that's also about 2 seconds at speed limit 130 km/h). We have them (although not so much) here in UK too. Can't remember seeing a Frenchman leaving a gap like that either ...

I'm quite happy to let AP maintain a decent distance from car in front, even if it means people push in. Ultimately I'd prefer to stay out of an accident, and my arrival time is going to be only a few accumulated seconds longer as a consequence of a few people pushing in ... most of the time I catch back up with where I was once they pull back over again.

 

[Farmertom]

Because you are unpredictable. You jump in front of a truck right before an offramp or split. Are you going to suddenly hit your brakes because you are confused? Nobody allows trucks to have a safe following distance. You will pull in from them right into their 'kill zone'.

You will never know how bad/stupid/thoughtless today's drivers really are until you drive a truck or tow a trailer. You only get a 1% dose when you drive a car. 50% dose when you're on 2 wheels, 75% when towing private, and the Full Monty when driving a semi.

Actually, some days it feels like some people think we are in a video game and trucks are are to be toyed with. I've experiencexd traffic leaving some automotive racing, or monster truck event in the big coliseum in Seattle and they drive like a madmen.

 

[Farmertom]

For starter, fuel efficiency will be better. For example, 2018 Cascadia will be ~8% better than 2016 Cascaia Evolution, and the current Evolution is already at > 10 mpg.
Then there are the autonomy and platooning capabilities.

Driving autonomously through Nevada | Daimler | Daimler


Nice bedroom + lounge. in Cascadia 2018!

You should notice it's an advertising video, they are going to make claims to sell their product. Aerodynamic trucks started in the mid eighties.
I doubt we'll see very much in terms of self driving by 2020. Maybe but they still have a lot to do.
Is platooning running nose to tail with other trucks?

 

[DarthPierce]

Is platooning running nose to tail with other trucks?

Yes, with very substantial gains achieved at gaps narrow enough to only be safely done with autopilot and maybe vehicle-to-vehicle communications.

 

[N5329K]

To those who have never driven or even been in the cab of a truck before. How can you judge those that drive truck for a living?

To me driving a class 8 truck in heavy traffic is akin to being an adult surrounded by a group of six year old kids. You have individuals darting in and out, some running ahead, others walking with you, yet others blocking your way and some trying to trip you. Sometimes they are calm and behave pretty well, sometimes they are tired, a bit irritated and try to get on your nerves, sometimes they are excited and in a hurry. Moving the same speed as a majority of the kids is allot easier than moving slower, I know, I've done it.
Some days I enjoy it, relax and go with the flow, other days it can be a bit irritating, occasionally it can be downright irritating. The experience has never been scary for me although I have had concern for some four wheelers as usually they lose in the event of a collision with a much larger vehicle.

Telling me (someone who's spent allot of time in trucks as well as four wheeled vehicles and motorbikes in all traffic conditions through all sorts of environmental conditions) how fast trucks should travel in relation to other traffic is like me telling a woman how to breastfeed a baby. You really don't have a clue.

I actually enjoy driving, I believe I'm a good driver, I'm courteous, I respect others on the road and I expect respect from them. I can sense nervous drivers for the most part I believe and try to give them space as they require. I never use the horn unless absolutely necessary. For maneuvers such as lane changes some days I need to be a little more assertive, I usually touch my brakes to give drivers a heads up I'm working on slowing down, usually it's five flashes of the signal lights and I'll start moving over, I won't push someone out of the way but my intentions will be clear, they are free to accelerate, decelerate or move over as they see fit, it doesn't bother me. This is me, I'm sure most others that drive truck are similar but I can't speak for everyone of course.

A truck that assists in enhancing my driving by constantly monitoring lane position, fore and aft traffic flow and positioning, obstacles, maintain speed, etc. can only make the experience better but we are still only human.

Here's a professional's quick take (apologies if it's already been posted):
This ex-trucker has some questions about the Tesla Semi
Robin

 

[jr4488]

@jr4488, if Tesla were able to offer independent drivers like yourself a truck that does what it said at the reveal — safest truck on the road, saves $0.25/mile TCO, offers a charging network as advertised on the routes they drive (500 mile battery/400 miles with a 30 minute recharge), and less maintenance — do you think independent drivers would go for it? Assume they build a sleeper cab version with comparable specs.

I currently run a dedicated route between Los Angeles and Salt Lake City. Two round trips a week. It’s 640 miles each way. Plus, Tesla just opened a supercharger “truckstop” in Baker, California that would work perfectly for me. I usually buy a new tractor every five years for about $130,000 and I spend about $70,000 a year on fuel and about $15,000 a year on maintaiance when the warrantee runs out at 500,000 miles. I currently have a 2013 Cascadia. I’ll be ready to go next year!

However, years ago, I had an EV1 Genll car. It was the best car I ever had. Various special interest groups ganged-up on us EV1 drivers and crushed all of our cars. I’m not making this up. Google it and see.

Trucking is very political, very regulated and has a violent history of resisting change. If I show up at shipper with a truck that operates at $.25 less a mile and has self driving features, what do you think the other guys are going to do?

Jack

 

[Dr. J]

Trucking is very political, very regulated and has a violent history of resisting change. If I show up at shipper with a truck that operates at $.25 less a mile and has self driving features, what do you think the other guys are going to do?

Give you an award for being an early adopter?

 

[Farmertom]

Here's a professional's quick take (apologies if it's already been posted):
This ex-trucker has some questions about the Tesla Semi
Robin

Nice Avatar

Yep, it's been posted. He's only been trucking for nine months, although it gives him some experience he technically hasn't really advanced to "professional".

Sitting in the center of the cab does look goofy though, and having your rider talking to the back of your head? I don't know...

He has some points, but many would be overcome as you get used to the unit, visibility down the sides to the rear and for backing up wouldn't be an issue with proper mirrors and/or even a decent camera setup, I do that with farm equipment all the time. Seeing around other trucks, buses and campers could be an issue all right, not sure if that's addressed with cameras or not. Paperwork and communicating with guards and such could be a little awkward as I guess you'd have to get out the seat and go to the door.

Ninety percent of trucks have four mirrors (two big flat side mirrors and two convex beneath them), some have five, six, seven and a few have eight. Mirrors are good and increase visibility but they can be a headache themselves all the way from vibration to drifting and breakage to increased maintenance and potential hazards when walking around or working on the vehicle. A combination of mirrors and cameras could be a good compromise.

I'm sure the screens have night view just like all the equipment I run with them. Some sense the ambient light, others switch when the work lights are turned on. Many vehicles you buy have these screens built into them already, this is nothing new.

If Tesla said this "[A truck cab is] a clutter of third-party devices, it's very difficult to use.... It's a pain-in-the-neck." they really don't have a clue, he is one percent correct that this is not true. Many of the gauges and gizmos in a truck cab are installed as options requested by the customer, a truck will run just fine with the same switches and gauges as any car (add a few for air pressure and trailer brakes), it's really not that complicated. If they want to make a device in the cab safer they should standardize AM/FM radio controls, what a convoluted mess of buttons they are.

 

[Farmertom]

Yes, with very substantial gains achieved at gaps narrow enough to only be safely done with autopilot and maybe vehicle-to-vehicle communications.

I thought of that back in the nineties, trucks could be equipped with special hitches, they would couple together as they entered the freeway and form a train and as they reached their destinations they could uncouple and remove themselves from the train and then the train could close up and reestablish an unbroken chain.
Aerodynamics would be the greatest gain and longer chains would benefit from vehicles going down hill pushing others going uphill and visa versa.
Biggest issue I thought would be the driver out front would have allot of responsibility

 

[Farmertom]

I currently run a dedicated route between Los Angeles and Salt Lake City. Two round trips a week. It’s 640 miles each way. Plus, Tesla just opened a supercharger “truckstop” in Baker, California that would work perfectly for me. I usually buy a new tractor every five years for about $130,000 and I spend about $70,000 a year on fuel and about $15,000 a year on maintaiance when the warrantee runs out at 500,000 miles. I currently have a 2013 Cascadia. I’ll be ready to go next year!

However, years ago, I had an EV1 Genll car. It was the best car I ever had. Various special interest groups ganged-up on us EV1 drivers and crushed all of our cars. I’m not making this up. Google it and see.

Trucking is very political, very regulated and has a violent history of resisting change. If I show up at shipper with a truck that operates at $.25 less a mile and has self driving features, what do you think the other guys are going to do?

Jack

I watched a documentary "Who Killed The Electric Car", it was an interesting watch.

I don't think safety would an issue.

 

[Farmertom]

I watched a documentary "Who Killed The Electric Car", it was an interesting watch.

I don't think safety would an issue.

I was thinking if the Nikola1 truck was a success we could start to see many hydrogen powered Perterbilt like trucks on the road. I could be wrong but if the hydrogen platform is what they are making it out to be I think it'll be the next evolution in truck and industrial equipment energy.

 

[electracity]

Here's a professional's quick take (apologies if it's already been posted):
This ex-trucker has some questions about the Tesla Semi

The writer didn't even understand the basic of what Tesla will provide as standard technology. The cab will have cameras, plus an AP type display of vehicles and the lane line around the truck. This will be a big improvement over a small, vibrating convex mirror.

Owners and transportation managers are the people who have the important insights into specific needs.

I was thinking if the Nikola1 truck was a success we could start to see many hydrogen powered Perterbilt like trucks on the road. I could be wrong but if the hydrogen platform is what they are making it out to be I think it'll be the next evolution in truck and industrial equipment energy.

The model 3 shows the rapid improvement in EV technology and price. I think for semi and smaller that hydrogen is dead. But hydrogen might be an answer for ships and possibly trains, if liquidfied biofuel doesn't work out.

 

[Saghost]

The model 3 shows the rapid improvement in EV technology and price. I think for semi and smaller that hydrogen is dead. But hydrogen might be an answer for ships and possibly trains, if liquidfied biofuel doesn't work out.

Maybe ships - there aren't any easy answers there. Electric trains are a much simpler, safer answer, and almost certainly cheaper than any hydrogen solution. Modern electric trains even feed the energy from slowing down back through the overhead line to the grid.

 

[James Anders]

Elon has no truck experience whatsoever, he knows that and admits it. His unveiling was the same as when Ford introduced their redesigned Louisville back in 1997, it was a bunch of car salespeople trying to sell a truck, it was a pretty sad day. To be honest I'm not sure if he's really taking it seriously.

Air ride cabs does some to smooth out ride of a truck, actually the stiffness of the frame would have the same effect. The frame and rear suspension causes a bucking sensation if not designed right and that is mostly absorbed by the rear cab suspension. It's possible the Tesla truck is stiff enough and has the rear suspension tuned to prevent this. Also the truck is so heavy and balanced running empty will be smooth also.

Maybe that's why Elon hired and appointed a bunch of people with truck experience.

 

[James Anders]

Why would a truck driver have to slow down for me if I am driving 65 mph speed limit in the right lane and he is driving 55 mph speed limit in the right lane?

But let's get this back on topic. Tesla has been the leader in vehicular safety and I don't see why that will change with the Semi. Jack has made a lot of assumptions in the OP. I suggest he contact Tesla and address his concerns with them. The Tesla Semi will definitely be safer than any truck on the highway now with radar, sonar, EAB, EAP, several cameras, faster acceleration, less brake wear, better visibility, safety glass, etc.

Truck drivers can be part of the revolution for a cleaner and safer way to deliver goods and services. It is going to happen, it is inevitable. Better to get in at the beginning rather than trying to catch up later, like the legacy automakers are trying to do right now.

Not to mention that major advances that the Tesla Semi will be with regard to the problem of jack-knifing. This alone will be a huge safety gain which will be enabled by computer control over the 4 wheel motors.

 

[electracity]

Not to mention that major advances that the Tesla Semi will be with regard to the problem of jack-knifing. This alone will be a huge safety gain which will be enabled by computer control over the 4 wheel motors.

Yes, like owners renting their model 3s out to the Tesla Network to run an automated Uber-like service.

Tesla has to have jackknife control to allow aggressive use of regen on an articulated truck. But Tesla should not be given credit for "a huge safety gain" which is undoubtedly vaporware today.

 

[James Anders]

I was thinking if the Nikola1 truck was a success we could start to see many hydrogen powered Perterbilt like trucks on the road. I could be wrong but if the hydrogen platform is what they are making it out to be I think it'll be the next evolution in truck and industrial equipment energy.

No. H2 is a dead end technology for vehicles. Too many infrastructure problems and costs. Piping, pressurizing and storing H2 is just more trouble than it's worth. I was in that world for 2-3 years.

What changed was the rapid (and continued) rise of lithium battery technology.

All anyone needs to do is run an electric service line. Done. Infrastructure complete.

As opposed to dealing with H2 embrittlement, safety, transport, etc. The only ones still pushing H2 are the oil companies because that's where the H2 would come from.

 

[James Anders]

Yes, like owners renting their model 3s out to the Tesla Network to run an automated Uber-like service.

Tesla has to have jackknife control to allow aggressive use of regen on an articulated truck. But Tesla should not be given credit for "a huge safety gain" which is undoubtedly vaporware today.

Not vapor at all. There are many vehicles today with active torque vectoring. Independently controlled motors with active vectoring.