Tesla Semi rival Nikola sues for $2 billion over alleged patent infringement

[scottm]

I didn't know trucks had fuselages...

copied the fuselage, doors, fenders, wraparound windshield, and other aerodynamic features

If you take a look side by side of each one of these components, isolated from the rest of the view, you can see significant design differences. In fact you might conclude the doors are nothing alike. The fenders are nothing alike. Fuselages don't exist on either. Maybe the windshields have similarity. But show me any 3 cars or trucks on the market that don't have similar looking windshields. Aerodynamics dictate a design regime. All computers generate aerodynamics design the same way, it's fluid modeling. "Your tear drop looks too much like my tear drop." Whaaaa. (That's Nicola crying in grave over the disgrace of copying his name for petty things such as this.)

One thing Tesla has going for it is design references within its own lineup. The nose of the semi has style cues taken from the cars. You can see them. Which is way different from the Nicola nose (thankfully).

 

[SMAlset]

I remember coming across an article in the last month I believe (and possibly within the last few weeks), that Nikola Motors was going back to the drawing board on how they were going to construct their hydrogen charging stations. Only skimmed the article but it included graphics of the refueling station tanks, visual of which is probably why it stuck in my memory. Will try to find it. Do think the article also said that this new approach to the station was going to cost well over what had been projected for each station prior. Believe the gist of the new design method was in how the tanks would be refueled. When I read the article I thought they are a long way off from setting up this infrastructure highway. When I saw the news stories starting to emerge at midnight last night over this lawsuit of theirs against Telsa I thought back to that article. Hope I saved a link to it or can find again. Maybe someone else read it?

 

[Yggdrasill]

The Norwegian company NEL is behind most/all of the hydrogen fueling equipment. It's been a bit entertaining to watch the coverage of the company, as they tout their huge contracts in the US. But I'm fairly sure Nikola will bankrupt them. (I haven't seen the article in question, though.)

 

[Barklikeadog]

Patent lawsuits like this are ridiculous... the hurdle is a lot higher than people think it is.
Golf clubs are the best example... Ping comes out with a driver for $500... a year later
a knockoff brand has a 90 dollar club that looks almost exactly like the original. They go
to court...
What color is the Ping? Crimson Red, the knockoff, cherry red... different
How long is the club? 35 inches? Knockoff is 34.85 inches... different
Launch angle? Ping 10 degrees, knockoff 9.8 degrees... different
Ping lettering is in a certain font, Pong knockoff lettering in a Comic Sans... different

Somebody earlier mentioned dress and they are right. From 20 ft away the initial reaction is that the two
golf clubs are identical, but I have already listed enough differences to defy any patent lawsuit. Knockoff wins.


On the other hand you have a patent squatter that offers their feature to Apple for a fee... and then Apple uses it anyway.
Apple loses.

 

[MP3Mike]

I found this: Nel ASA: Receives Additional Purchase Order from Nikola But it doesn't mention a redesign...

 

[HankLloydRight]

The last refuge of a dying company. Lawsuits against anyone in range. I guess Nikola is in worse shape than I thought.

And they'll probably die the same way -- penniless, senile, alone in a NYC hotel room.

 

[bhzmark]

The last refuge of a dying company. Lawsuits against anyone in range. I guess Nikola is in worse shape than I thought.

I wonder if it is possible that a scared short is funding the litigation to try to give Tesla one more fire (or smolder in this case) to put out?

 

[cpa]

Here is the write up on Martindale on Leo's firm:

Law Firm Office Information for Beus Gilbert PLLC - Martindale.com

Leo has been around the block a few times, and he is AV-rated. Co-counsel has no rating and appears to have a more recently-issued license. Might be his first rodeo, especially one of this size.

This is likely a contingency-fee based case. Nikola would love to get to the discovery phase of this lawsuit. Tesla Motors, not so much.

I am not a lawyer, so what I write here is not to be construed as legal advice or opinion.

Tesla will file a motion to dismiss. (I think it is summary judgement.) It could be with or without prejudice, depending upon how mendacious or defective the claim is. Tesla might even counter-sue if there is a little meat on that bone.

If there is no summary judgement, and the trial judge allows the lawsuit to head to trial, there will be a swift and confidential settlement, perhaps for a few million just so they go away. Leo & Co. gets 30-33% of the settlement (probably), and Nikola gets the balance, less legal expenses like photocopying at 25 cents per page and toilet tissue at $1.50/roll.

 

[mongo]

This is likely a contingency-fee based case. Nikola would love to get to the discovery phase of this lawsuit. Tesla Motors, not so much.

I am also not a lawyer, so grain of salt.
They are design patents, what would discovery yield of value to Nikola? If the two designs fail the "average observer thinks they are the same" test, internal documents are irrelevant. If it was found to infringe, there had not been actual losses yet and intent is not relevant.

 

[SMAlset]

So if Nikola Motors just got an order from Anheuser-Busch for hundreds of trucks (maybe up to 800) wasn't that a nice gift to Tesla?! Can't say you've been hurt financially if you get a big order like that. Believe you have to show you've been damaged and doesn't sound like it.

Anheuser-Busch orders hundreds of hydrogen trucks from zero-emission startup Nikola

BTW not sure what the going price is for one of their semi's but an older article had them priced in the $400,000 price range so with other technology out there like Teslas, that could be a big factor in why people may have jumped ship from Nikola. However a current article on the new order refers to Nikola bringing the price of their semis down to the overall cost of diesel trucks, typically around $150,000.

 

[cpa]

I am also not a lawyer, so grain of salt.
They are design patents, what would discovery yield of value to Nikola? If the two designs fail the "average observer thinks they are the same" test, internal documents are irrelevant. If it was found to infringe, there had not been actual losses yet and intent is not relevant.

You are correct on the surface. What we do not know about is what has happened (if anything) behind the curtain. Are there emails between Tesla employees that reference the design? Phone calls? Disgruntled Tesla employees who have some inside dirt on the process? Discovery starts with what is called interrogatories from one party to the other. Those questions must be answered truthfully. From those answers more interrogatories are requested. Then come the dreaded depositions. Meanwhile, there is all this pre-trial litigation going on. It gets messy and expensive.

Moreover, during the motions to dismiss, the trial judge may very well dismiss one complaint but permit another complaint to proceed. (I read the complaint, and I seem to recall that there was more than one cause of action--too lazy to reread.)

Damages can be a tricky area. Perhaps you are correct in that there is a noticeable difference in the designs, and the whole thing blows up in Nikola's face. Or perhaps the trial judge will determine that the design similarities/differences are a question of fact for a jury to decide, and not one that would fall under the summary judgement procedures.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

This is likely a contingency-fee based case. Nikola would love to get to the discovery phase of this lawsuit. Tesla Motors, not so much.

I am not a lawyer, so what I write here is not to be construed as legal advice or opinion.

Tesla will file a motion to dismiss. (I think it is summary judgement.) It could be with or without prejudice, depending upon how mendacious or defective the claim is. Tesla might even counter-sue if there is a little meat on that bone.

I don't think Tesla will bother to counter-sue. Nikola's maneuvers with refunding discounts suggest that it's sue or die.

 

[mongo]

You are correct on the surface. What we do not know about is what has happened (if anything) behind the curtain. Are there emails between Tesla employees that reference the design? Phone calls? Disgruntled Tesla employees who have some inside dirt on the process? Discovery starts with what is called interrogatories from one party to the other. Those questions must be answered truthfully. From those answers more interrogatories are requested. Then come the dreaded depositions. Meanwhile, there is all this pre-trial litigation going on. It gets messy and expensive.

Moreover, during the motions to dismiss, the trial judge may very well dismiss one complaint but permit another complaint to proceed. (I read the complaint, and I seem to recall that there was more than one cause of action--too lazy to reread.)

Damages can be a tricky area. Perhaps you are correct in that there is a noticeable difference in the designs, and the whole thing blows up in Nikola's face. Or perhaps the trial judge will determine that the design similarities/differences are a question of fact for a jury to decide, and not one that would fall under the summary judgement procedures.

Agree with the standard process, but for this type of issue, where neither company has sales, and Tesla had there demo trucks made before Nikola had been granted design patents, I'm not seeing how any discovery would be relevant. My POV is that if the design styling is found to infringe, Tesla will needs to alter it, but Nikola has no losses to date due to the styling.