I understand the it’s a new vehicle, maybe they should have used the same higher velocity batteries from the S & X models vs the economic 4380 cells for the 3 & Y models. I get a feeling the 4380 will be the norm going forward as they are making the CT’s production line and making new vehicles and replacing all vehicles with 4380’s after the S & X refresh comes out hopefully 2025. Elon did say they wanted interchangeable components to lower the costs to the consumer and crank out much as they can not burden supply chain.
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Tesla should offer Range Extenders for Rental
- Thread starter Jedi2155
- Start date
vcor
Tech Specialist
It's a 4680 not 4380.
I'm not sure it saves Tesla any money right now. Once the volume cranks up, I expect they will be the best value for the power. If they had used the smaller batteries, the range would be even less, but that's hard to determine. The CT is the least efficient body (aero and weight) of the Tesla vehicle family, not including the Semi, so it requires the best batteries Tesla has available.Someone died today from pneumonia. Does that mean that everyone with pneumonia will die? Okay, so I'm a little tired addressing these stupid YouTube videos.
The Cybertruck has a much bigger battery and will indeed take longer to charge. It's a big truck, so it will use more energy. Those are givens.
I've seen the pretty much the exact same charging numbers on my cars as well.
A few things to think about. For a Model Y and Model 3, 250 kW charging will drop from 250 kW in only a minute or two. And that's with a nearly empty battery. The YouTube video was far from empty. Once a my car gets to about 35%, it will only be at 150kW. Yes, if your car isn't below 40%, a V2 charger is going to be just as fast (assuming that another vehicle isn't plugged into the pedestal pair)
The Cybertruck can configure it's battery in either a 400V or 800V configuration. For existing Superchargers it must use the 400V configuration. That's not going to let it charge as fast as it will at V4 800V stations.
Oh, and really? 90% That just goes to show how the video creators don't understand a Tesla. You do realize that the time to go from 80-90% is about the same as 0-80%.
But, it's a YouTube posting and I believe while a Tesla employee, not a Tesla driver. It's not a reliable source of information.
But if you haven't placed your Cybertruck order, it's going to probably be a few years before you can get one anyway.
After hearing about the latest range tests (250 miles for the AWD variant @ 70 MPH and 45F) it makes me really question the usability of the truck as a camper and vacation vehicle, and even the latest tow tests (~150 miles towing a Model Y with Tonneau cover open,TL;DW: 110 mile trip, 83 kWh used, average efficiency 749 Wh/mi. ), the range is really unacceptable, and question my desire to purchase a foundation series (deposit provided) and waiting for improvements to the vehicle.
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The truck RECONFIGURES its battery??! Where did you hear that? That seems really unlikely. I think the more likely explanation is that there is some detection and step-up or step-down DC converter on one side or the other.
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
It’s a bunch of relays. A 250kW dc-dc would be big, expensive and require a lot of cooling.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Well, my first thought on it is that it would be much easier to have in the Supercharger cabinets, since they have frequently built those from modular pieces before, so they might be able to connect or activate only some of them for the 400V level and more for the 800V level. But then I also realized that's probably not going to be the case, because the old V2 Superchargers almost certainly wouldn't have been set up for that. V3 might have if they were already forward thinking for it, and V4 would have it.
That would create a really bad situation though if the Cybertrucks couldn't charge on V2 Superchargers, so they wouldn't have that, so it made me think switching on the vehicle side somehow.
Sure, probably, but that's already what one of the other companies does! I think it's Hyundai or Kia? So since that's already being done, it didn't seem too far fetched for Tesla to use that method too. Like maybe the V4 Superchargers can switch that natively, but the V2 and V3 can do that on the vehicle side. Seemed sensible.
@AlanSubie4Life Ah, thanks for the link to the video; I hadn't seen that before. I've seen a lot of people suggest that very thing on electric car discussion threads and this Tesla forum for many years as a method for charging from either 400V or 800V sources. The response without fail has always been insulting and criticism and saying that's stupid, impractical, unnecessary, ridiculous, etc. Sooooo I thought it seemed unlikely that Tesla would do that since the Tesla fans seemed so adamant that it was a terrible idea.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Yeah, I don’t really know why one would bother with high power DC-DC. Seems very impractical. But I wonder why some manufacturers have made that choice.
I don’t really understand. If your pack is in two equal halves and you can figure out how to do the balancing (the two halves would need to be the same voltage when put in parallel I think), it doesn’t seem that bad.
Range extender will go in parallel with all that I assume so would increase the complexity.
I wonder which cells it will use? I can’t get 50kWh or thereabouts to work out with 4680. I can only get 220s3p (or so - we still don’t know the CT pack size), which is 61.5kWh, or 220s2p which is 41kWh. Plus they don’t know how to make 4680 cells.
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I believe that you will find that the Cybertruck will beat the range of your M3P.
I've pulled a boat behind my Model Y from Atlanta to Tampa. It dropped my range to about 75 miles. It wasn't the greatest, but it made it. The Cybertruck is showing early signs of towing more, that's that the Range Extender is supposed to help with.
If you don't want FSD and the Powershare equipment, there is no need to get the Foundation Series. Just hang on for a standard invite to order.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Either that or the LG 2170s.
It would not make sense (in the unlikely event they ever make a range extender) to use batteries which would be able to be used to claim a tax credit.
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
Does anyone understand how the range extender will work? Seems like it only works if it’s two 400V segments wired in parallel with the main pack segments. I guess it could be a different chemistry but it seems like charging would be wonky in some way (like if they have different internal resistances?).
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
No.
I guess if they figured out how to manage imbalance of two sections when putting them in parallel they can figure out anything.
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
That’s no different than keeping all the series cells in balance on a normal pack.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
But they don’t. I guess maybe a few mV does not matter. They don’t usually short cells together in parallel do they?
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Daniel in SD
(supervised)
But the hardware is there to keep all series segments at exactly the same voltage right?
They don’t do that? Maybe it’s more efficient to let them get out of balance a little.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Over time sure but 20mV per brick imbalance is normal after discharge starting balanced.
Would not be much point in balancing of course (no need!) in that case and they do not typically.
eg
HV Battery Health Test Confusion
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vcor
Tech Specialist
Lucid does the Step-up process, but it is limited to 50 kW on a 500V CCS charger (most older CCS stalls are limited to 500V).
The Cybertruck can use the full 250 kW on a V3 Supercharger (500V max) by switching the two sections of 400V in parallel. When driving (or at a full V4 1000V Supercharger) it is switched to series 800V. This method is a fraction of the cost and far more reliable than Lucid's approach while offering fast charging on older Superchargers.
The V4 Supercharger is a bit confusing as the current pedestals are V4 connected to V3 cabinets, so the current "V4" installations are more like V3.5 and limited to 250kW and 500V. When the V4 Superchargers cabinets start to install, they are expected to support 350 kW, 1000V. These may charge the Cybertruck faster, shaving 5-10 minutes off the total charge time. I'm not aware of any full V4 installations in the USA yet.
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