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artsci
Sponsor
We're working on it. SUPRKAR and I did a jerry-rigged test of one on my car and it showed up and was controllable from the touchscreen. But the new charge port hardware is proving difficult to install as it attaches to the car body in a different way from the old.
As a home charging solution, yes.
On the other hand I can't imagine having such 'snakes' at public charging locations without constantly fixing broken ones.
Imagine a new sport - charging snake wrestling ...
Additional reasons why this isn't just for convenience:
-You can forget to plug the car in when you get out.
-If they upgrade superchargers with these, you'll be able to stay in your car the whole time - quite useful during a rain/snow storm, or in Detroit where getting out means instant murder.
-An extra-long version will be developed that will keep you connected during short trips, say less than a mile.
-You can forget to plug the car in when you get out.
-If they upgrade superchargers with these, you'll be able to stay in your car the whole time - quite useful during a rain/snow storm, or in Detroit where getting out means instant murder.
-An extra-long version will be developed that will keep you connected during short trips, say less than a mile.
Skotty
2014 S P85 | 2023 F-150L
Re: Inductive Charging
Need some electrical engineers to chime in on this. Obviously inductive charging works fine for overnight. But I would guess it would be a problem when ramped up 120 kW. Can you really transfer that much power through inductive charging without it becoming somehow dangerous?
UPDATE: I haven't read through it yet, but I found this that might give some insight (still need to review quality of source but seems good on initial inspection): http://newscience.ul.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Safety_Considerations_of_Wireless_Charger_for_Electric_Vehicles.pdf
Need some electrical engineers to chime in on this. Obviously inductive charging works fine for overnight. But I would guess it would be a problem when ramped up 120 kW. Can you really transfer that much power through inductive charging without it becoming somehow dangerous?
UPDATE: I haven't read through it yet, but I found this that might give some insight (still need to review quality of source but seems good on initial inspection): http://newscience.ul.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Safety_Considerations_of_Wireless_Charger_for_Electric_Vehicles.pdf
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mknox
Well-Known Member
I think inductive is workable for Level 2 charging, but probably impractical for power transfer at Supercharger levels. A transformer uses the same principle, and they can, as you know, get quite large. (Plus, it requires ac... won't work with the dc current of a Supercharger).
I'm not a fan of inductive charging given the losses. There's some argument for it in public where vandalization might be an issue, but I've always argued that a simple robot would be better if plugging in yourself is a hassle at home.
Btw, this snake approach while it looks cool, seems overly complicated and unnecessary to me. You can get all the range of motion you need with 3 or 4 rotating actuators (and the appropriate Jacobian transformation).
Correct, it would be extremely difficult if not impossible to get practical inductive coupling even with 50kW, let alone 135kW. The low efficiency would require liquid cooling on both ends.
The power electronics aren't too bad, on the car side all you basically need is a rectifier.
The current offerings only run a little over 3kW, (Evatran/Plugless) so charging a low 85kW pack is going to take longer than overnight. In addition, you'll lose at least 20% of your power.
The power electronics aren't too bad, on the car side all you basically need is a rectifier.
The current offerings only run a little over 3kW, (Evatran/Plugless) so charging a low 85kW pack is going to take longer than overnight. In addition, you'll lose at least 20% of your power.
mknox
Well-Known Member
I've read efficiency is around 85 to 89%. Probably due to the separation between the two coils of the "transformer" (the pad and the device on the car). Something that you park over, then lifts to come in contact with the pad on the bottom of the car could probably improve that. But sure, you're not going to beat the efficiency of a directly connected system.
The downside with the snake is that while plugged in you are unable to walk around that side of the car which is my normal ingress and egress. I guess it could unplug when charging is complete, and plug in at the time that charging is scheduled to begin. Then it would not be so much of an issue.
If you have something lift to come into contact, it might as well be conductive. Given the number of miles someone drives in a day, and the relatively large amount of energy a car uses (compared to other devices in one's home), even a 5% charging loss can be rather significant.
Think about other things you do to save energy. Do you turn off the lights when you leave a room? Do you minimize the time you leave the refrigerator door open? How much energy does that save and how much trouble is it to do those things? Would you plug in your car instead of using a lossy inductive method?
So yeah, robo plug is a better solution.
So be it, I'm not picky. As long as it is cheap, reliable and omni directional i.e. mounted under the middle section of the car so I can pull in forward over it or back in reverse.
Conductive, inductive who cares. I just don't want to manually do it every single day and I don't want to have cables lying around waiting for me to trip over them.
mknox
Well-Known Member
The one advantage I can see with inductive is that you eliminate the wear and tear on connectors and charge ports. If anything, that's been the one recurring problem I've had over the years. But yes, I agree with @doug's comments about efficiency.
For those who think this is unnecessary, it is all part of the autopilot system. How can the MS drive itself to your front door to pick you up if it can't unplug itself first? And self-parking in the garage is less useful if you have to stand there waiting to plug it in when done.
i think this is a great addition to the Tesla story, just hoping it won't cost me too much to get one
i think this is a great addition to the Tesla story, just hoping it won't cost me too much to get one
Todd Burch
14-Year Member
I think a better/simpler solution to this would be a charge port underneath the car. You park in a spot and a simple robot with 2 degrees of freedom moves horizontally in the parking space underneath the car to optically find the port underneath the car. Once found, the connector is sent up until it engages.
Avoids the losses of inductive charging, keeps everything out of the way, etc.
Only downside is that you'd have to do some in-ground install work.
By the way, I'm thinking about this in terms of supercharging. Obviously this isn't an approach for home use. Two charge ports (one on the side and one underneath) would be the way to go.
For home charging, I agree a simple 6-dof robot is all that's needed, unless this prototype has some potentially cheaper tech we're not considering.
Avoids the losses of inductive charging, keeps everything out of the way, etc.
Only downside is that you'd have to do some in-ground install work.
By the way, I'm thinking about this in terms of supercharging. Obviously this isn't an approach for home use. Two charge ports (one on the side and one underneath) would be the way to go.
For home charging, I agree a simple 6-dof robot is all that's needed, unless this prototype has some potentially cheaper tech we're not considering.
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And you need a pad on the bottom of your car. The two things I like about automated plugging in is that it avoids putting more stuff on or in the car and you can easily fall back to manual plugging in.
And for anyone who doesn't think losses are a big deal: with a Tesla I'd be paying a marginal 11.8c/kWh. (I have TOU delivery). 10% of that is 1.18c/kWh. I can buy renewable credits from Maine Green Power for 1.5c/kWh. Which is a better way to spend money?
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