Tesla Stores

[jerry33]

Not to get toooo political here, but some American politicians love to go on about personal freedoms, but here is strong evidence of needless government meddling in the affairs of others.

And it's the politicians that spout the most about personal freedom that are the ones that support the most meddling.

Personally I think the government should let the free market work here.

Well, the problem with a total free market is that the CEOs send all the good jobs to China, India, and Pakistan while they leave the Walmart and McDonalds jobs here. It's kind of cutting their own throat because eventually there is no one who can afford more than minimal food and clothing so they go out of business, but most CEOs never think about more than the next quarter.

 

[Doug_G]

Well, the problem with a total free market is that the CEOs send all the good jobs to China, India, and Pakistan while they leave the Walmart and McDonalds jobs here. It's kind of cutting their own throat because eventually there is no one who can afford more than minimal food and clothing so they go out of business, but most CEOs never think about more than the next quarter.

You can't outsource your local car dealer or Tesla Store to China.

I think the trend towards outsourcing everything overseas may have reached a tipping point where some things are starting to come back here. A lot of companies have outsourced stuff overseas and then had to cope with big quality and management problems. Obviously some things aren't going to come back any time soon - when you can get them made in China for $20 and here for $200, it really doesn't make any sense to make them here. That's just economic reality.

 

[vfx]

... when you can get them made in China for $20 and here for $200, it really doesn't make any sense to make them here. That's just economic reality.

Tarrifs.

 

[Doug_G]

Tarrifs.

And those things are good? They work both ways. My business is 95% export.

 

[ckessel]

when you can get them made in China for $20 and here for $200, it really doesn't make any sense to make them here. That's just economic reality.

It's only a reality because we allow imports of items made in near prison conditions in countries that spend next to nothing on the basic infrastructure most 1st world nations think should exist.

That's why tariffs exist, to address the kinds of situations like imports from a country that allows abusive companies to make profit literally off the blood and sweat of people with so little power and influence that they're trapped into their situation. We don't use tariffs nearly enough and the consumer is too lazy, greedy, or uninformed to make the free market level that field. Or sometimes there's no choice at this point after the offshoring that's been done. In the US you can't even choose to buy a US manufactured good in many cases, the factories are all off shored.

If you want to go pure free market without concern for how things are made, it's condoning "by any means necessary" as a route to profit.

 

[Doug_G]

You are making ill-informed assumptions. Why would you assume workers building these products are always in prison conditions? The fact is the cost of living there is far lower than here. But people's standard of living is rapidly improving in most areas.

 

[vfx]

If a country like the US is trying to bring lost manufacturing back how can they do that?

 

[ElSupreme]

The trick to having stuff manufactured in the USA is to have it cost to much to ship. I am an engineer that works in factories that produce and ship mostly water.

EDIT: That or you implement an absurd amount of automation, and look at the long term costs. Automation beats people almost all the time.

But this is about stores people, lets get back on topic!

 

[v12 to 12v]

It's only a reality because we allow imports of items made in near prison conditions in countries that spend next to nothing on the basic infrastructure most 1st world nations think should exist.

That's why tariffs exist, to address the kinds of situations like imports from a country that allows abusive companies to make profit literally off the blood and sweat of people with so little power and influence that they're trapped into their situation. We don't use tariffs nearly enough and the consumer is too lazy, greedy, or uninformed to make the free market level that field. Or sometimes there's no choice at this point after the offshoring that's been done. In the US you can't even choose to buy a US manufactured good in many cases, the factories are all off shored.

If you want to go pure free market without concern for how things are made, it's condoning "by any means necessary" as a route to profit.

That is only a small part of the picture. There dangerous waste products from manufacturing are not managed properly. Often there is grey market materials used or inferior substitutes. Its all because $ trumps all. Its hard to find high quality goods anymore because the majority votes for cheap.

- - - Updated - - -

You are making ill-informed assumptions. Why would you assume workers building these products are always in prison conditions? The fact is the cost of living there is far lower than here. But people's standard of living is rapidly improving in most areas.

I am quite fond of Canadian goods by the way. They may cost more but the quality makes it a much greater value.... but one of my favorite companies moved their manufacturing overseas and quality deteriorated dramatically. Its not the same anymore. It saddened me. I wish that they would have raised prices instead

 

[ElSupreme]

I am quite fond of Canadian goods by the way. They may cost more but the quality makes it a much greater value.... but one of my favorite companies moved their manufacturing overseas and quality deteriorated dramatically. Its not the same anymore. It saddened me. I wish that they would have raised prices instead

Could that be Arc'teryx? Their Chinese stuff is CRAP!

And back on topic; I mean it.

 

[v12 to 12v]

But this is about stores people, lets get back on topic!

Ready to get back on topic. I think the dealership laws are outdated and they conflict with other consumer laws.

- - - Updated - - -

Could that be Arc'teryx? Their Chinese stuff is CRAP!

And back on topic; I mean it.

A different company. Back on topic!

 

[Robert.Boston]

From the AutoNews article:

"Tesla may not yet recognize the value of the independent, franchised dealer system, but as its sales increase, NADA is confident it will re-examine its business model," Montana dealer and NADA Chairman Bill Underriner said in the statement. "Other companies such as Daewoo did. All companies should be complying with existing laws in the same way dealers are required to."

If it were true that the independent, franchised dealer system adds value, then there wouldn't need to be a law mandating it. The fact that such laws exist suggest that it is not necessarily the best solution for all, but that it is the best for independent car dealers (who often have a lot of local political power).

 

[VolkerP]

never task the frogs to drain the swamp.

 

[Robert.Boston]

I couldn't resist, and posted this comment with the article:

"Tesla may not yet recognize the value of the independent, franchised dealer system, but as its sales increase, NADA is confident it will re-examine its business model," [says] NADA Chair Bill Underriner.

I'm glad the NADA is confident in the superiority of the dealer model. If he believes what he's saying, he should be perfectly willing to see Tesla try a different path, instead of trying to sue Tesla. Is NADA afraid of competition in the marketplace of ideas? Sounds that way to me.

If you think hard about the dealership model, what it really brings is one things: capital (the dealer buys the store and carries inventory costs) . Does an independent dealer necessarily provide a better buying experience? Some do, some don't. Better after-sale service? Some do, some don't.

When Tesla says, "no dealerships" they're not saying "no customer service." They're saying that the company will take direct responsibility for the entire sales and service process. The model doesn't steal jobs from anyone: there are still mechanics, people on the floor working with potential customers, people working on arranging financing and trade-ins, and so on. It does mean, though, that Tesla is ensuring that every store and service center meet its high standards for quality and service. It also provides a career path for employees; many of the people now managing a Tesla facility started off in a lower position at a different store.

NADA may be right, that this can't work. But why can't we let the market decide, instead of the courts?

 

[jordanthompson]

When Tesla says, "no dealerships" they're not saying "no customer service." They're saying that the company will take direct responsibility for the entire sales and service process. The model doesn't steal jobs from anyone: there are still mechanics, people on the floor working with potential customers, people working on arranging financing and trade-ins, and so on. It does mean, though, that Tesla is ensuring that every store and service center meet its high standards for quality and service. It also provides a career path for employees; many of the people now managing a Tesla facility started off in a lower position at a different store.

As a current owner of a Tesla and previous owner of Toyota, Mercedes, SAAB, Chevrolet, Dodge, etc, I can honestly say that the manufacturer does a MUCH better job dealing with their customers. In fact, Tesla is going to realign the industry not only in technology, but in service!

 

[Robert.Boston]

Oh, I agree. I just didn't want to pick that fight in my reply; it's really beside the point: what's the rationale for denying customers a choice in the model by which they buy a car?

If there are any lawyers here: how are these laws not an infringement of the Constitution's interstate commerce clause?

 

[vfx]

...I can honestly say that the manufacturer does a MUCH better job dealing with their customers. ...

I'm not sure if this is true or they are simply better by comparision to the dealers.

 

[jordanthompson]

In my experience, it is. I had some issues with my Sienna (Toyota) that were covered by the manufacturer's extended warranty (not the dealer's warranty). It was slam-dunk no problem to get it done. I know for a fact had I had the dealer's warranty, it would have been and ordeal to get the same work done. The manufacturer has a lot more at stake than the dealer. Just look at the difference in their salesmen (people!) There are not many car dealers I would want to meet on the street or have over to dinner, but the Tesla guys (and gals!) are a different breed - they are in it for altruistic reasons as well as making a few bucks. How many normal car sales people have degrees from Stanford or MIT? I have met several from Tesla and none without a college education from a school I have actually heard of. Not the case with normal car dealers - you are lucky to find one with any college education (OK - maybe a little exaggeration for effect here.)

 

[vfx]

.. I know for a fact had I had the dealer's warranty, it would have been and ordeal to get the same work done. The manufacturer has a lot more at stake than the dealer....

I agree, but again the dealer poisons the distinction.

The manufacture says do the work and the dealer makes money on labor.
The dealer fights dealer warrenties because they loose money.

I can think of dozens of (electronic) products that I have had difficulty with in dealing with the manufacture.

 

[jordanthompson]

If you have problems with the manufacture, you don't think you'd have them with their dealers?