Bardlebee
Member
Haven't reserved yet myself, but yes I believe Tesla does make you pay the sales tax of your state and it should go to your state.
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Tesla Stores
- Thread starter doug
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- Tesla Inc.
IIRC this was about Tesla's store model in MA (not having a store and service center in the same location), no?
In any case, it's not looking like it'll be an issue. The service center should open in Watertown this month and their sales license will be approved and all will be well. Just takes time to get through the red tape.
In any case, it's not looking like it'll be an issue. The service center should open in Watertown this month and their sales license will be approved and all will be well. Just takes time to get through the red tape.
One of the complaints apparently is that Tesla's "education" is all part of making the sale and thus they're actually selling illegally. I wonder if Tesla could just say it's all advertising. Other car manufacturers advertise so that's clearly legal and Tesla could simply claim it's stores are a form of advertisement.
I thought about that, but it'd be hard to say that convincingly when the employees are all Tesla employees.
artsci
Sponsor
“If a manufacturer sees that Tesla is successful with this kind of business model, who’s to say they don’t break out their own EV product lines and create a separate system that bypasses dealers?” said Bob O’Koniewski, executive vice president of the Massachusetts State Automobile Dealers Association. “It’s extremely problematic.”
God forbid someone innovate in this industry. I can understand why dealers are threatened -- their operations are dinosaurs of the 20th century.
God forbid someone innovate in this industry. I can understand why dealers are threatened -- their operations are dinosaurs of the 20th century.
It's only problematic if the company has actual franchised dealers that could be threatened by a company's direct sales.
As long as Tesla has no dealers, it's a non-issue. The dealer association guys just conveniently leave out that fact.
I believe that there were two problems with the Natick store.
One: the mall was not zoned to allow car sales; obviously a local issue driven by a concern that the typical car dealership isn't the glamorous business that Natick wants to attract to the mall.
Two: Mass law requires that you must be able to service vehicles you sell, so until the Watertown service center opens up, Tesla couldn't meet that requirement. This requirement seems entirely reasonable to me as a consumer protection.
One: the mall was not zoned to allow car sales; obviously a local issue driven by a concern that the typical car dealership isn't the glamorous business that Natick wants to attract to the mall.
Two: Mass law requires that you must be able to service vehicles you sell, so until the Watertown service center opens up, Tesla couldn't meet that requirement. This requirement seems entirely reasonable to me as a consumer protection.
sublimaze1
8Dec2012 / Leeroy Jenkins
Either way, Texas law declares any motor motor vehicle that is sold in the state of Texas must be sold froma dealer with a Texas dealer license. Any other solution (e.g. a factory store) is illegal. In fact, promotion of sales by a non-dealer is also illegal. That is why the AMP tour did not get clearance to go through Texas until the very last minute and even then, the AMP employees were forbidden to discuss price, financing, or anything other than performance of the car from the standpoint of "the car is already purchased/reserved by the owner"
CapitalistOppressor
Active Member
Ultimately this is going to be a huge issue. The dealers want Tesla to sell them franchises and Tesla is either going to cave or it isn't.
If Tesla doesn't plan on caving they are going to need to prepare a war chest for litigation and to fight attempts by the dealers to get new laws on the books to trip up Tesla. The dealers are a powerful interest and they are going to be able to regulate Tesla out of many markets if Tesla isn't prepared to counter them.
Frankly, my thought is they need to find a test case (like Texas) ASAP and start litigating it at the Federal level. They need to kick this up to the appellate level as quickly as possible, because in three years there is a decent chance we'll see a blizzard of actual and proposed regulations aimed at shutting down or constraining the Tesla retail model.
By then there will likely be actual consumer complaints and recalls that every automaker deals with and the dealers will spin these issues into a massive sense of (manufactured) crisis at the statehouse level. If Tesla moves quickly they can have controlling cases working their way through the upper levels of the Federal judiciary by then and have an opportunity to shut it all down.
Right now Tesla is playing nice with regulators to try an smooth their way in but the dealers haven't even engaged yet. In a year that's going to change.
It baffles me the laws restricting manufacturer stores are even legal. Why is Apple allowed to sell it's products at Apple stores? Why can Nike have it's own Nike store (at least here in Portland)? Why is any manufacturer allowed to have a store, but not an auto manufacturer? How does this cover a website? Can Texas really stop someone from ordering a Tesla online and having it shipped to Texas?
Not to get toooo political here, but some American politicians love to go on about personal freedoms, but here is strong evidence of needless government meddling in the affairs of others.
Personally I think the government should let the free market work here.
Personally I think the government should let the free market work here.
mitch672
Active Member
In Massachusetts, it's the existing car dealers all complaining, no one else really cares.
They are trying to protect their livelihood, and see Tesla's business model as a threat to it,
Frankly the existing dealer networks are a throwback to the 20th century, and probably no longer required, they add little to no value for an EV, I believe Tesla should battle every one of these "dealer associations", if they don't, they'll be an ongoing thorn in their side.
They are trying to protect their livelihood, and see Tesla's business model as a threat to it,
Frankly the existing dealer networks are a throwback to the 20th century, and probably no longer required, they add little to no value for an EV, I believe Tesla should battle every one of these "dealer associations", if they don't, they'll be an ongoing thorn in their side.
Krugerrand
Meow
That annoys me to no end. I don't need to be protected from myself, tyvm. If I buy a vehicle that can not be serviced in my 'general' area, and I didn't know that, then that's my bad for not doing the research.
Government (of all levels) needs to get out of my business and let me sink or swim on my own level of intelligence. Protect me from liars, cheats, swindlers, murderers, robbers, etc... But don't protect me from my own stupidity because I deserve the end result.
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