Tesla suddenly gets about $10k less expensive (tax incentives)

[alexgr]

New tax incentives are giving $10k federal tax credit to all EVs produced in the US.
$12.5k - for EVs produced in the US on factories with union workers.
$7.5k to all other EVs.

1) All Tesla M3, MY, CT and potentially lower trim MS vehicles are getting $10k (not counting taxes on full price) discount.
2) The Ford Mach-E is basically dead as it is only eligible for $7.5k tax credit (that it enjoys now) when Model Y gets anew $10k tax credit making the LR DM MY less expensive than the Mach-E in most non-basic configurations.
3) Should Elon start a "Not-a-Union union"?
4) Should Tesla start construction of another Factory (closer to East coast, expand Buffalo factory maybe) ASAP?
5) Is it even legal for government to directly incentivize unions?

Electric car US tax credit proposed to $12,500, less for Tesla vehicles

A new bill to reform the federal electric car tax incentive in the US has passed the US Senate Finance...

electrek.co

 

[techlogik]

Yeah, will wait for a final bill and exact wording, these things change all the time. I see FL bills all the time related to my industry from our lobbyist...these things are constantly getting struck out and modified all the time.

Only good thing is, there seems to be a general consensus and support for EV and tax credits and future amongst both Rep/Dem

Let's hope!!!

 

[Earl]

The Ford Mach-E is basically dead as it is only eligible for $7.5k tax credit (that it enjoys now)

I certainly hope this gets cleaned up. We need other cars too.

 

[alexgr]

I certainly hope this gets cleaned up. We need other cars too.

Mach-E AWD Extended Range is kinda an equivalent to MY LR DM. MSRP: Ford - $55,300; Tesla - $51,990. Considering that the Mach-E is smaller, slower, and has less range ... even if we don't count the future potential $2.5k tax incentive difference, they are not really competitive without Ford enjoying for now $7,5k tax credit advantage.

I don't think we need to help any specific manufacturers by rigging the competition to their side because this = government corruption. It would make sense though to provide government credits and just money for retooling and for workers education. And the bill proposes some retooling incentives too.

 

[alexgr]

Yeah, will wait for a final bill and exact wording, these things change all the time. I see FL bills all the time related to my industry from our lobbyist...these things are constantly getting struck out and modified all the time.

Only good thing is, there seems to be a general consensus and support for EV and tax credits and future amongst both Rep/Dem

Let's hope!!!

Yes, sure, we should see and hope. I am waiting for a CT and this tax credit would cover the cost of the FSD. ... hope there will be no last minute change to the bill like "the incentives don't apply to vehicles claiming potential for autonomy beyond level 2"

 

[mk677]

New tax incentives are giving $10k federal tax credit to all EVs produced in the US.
$12.5k - for EVs produced in the US on factories with union workers.
$7.5k to all other EVs.

1) All Tesla M3, MY, CT and potentially lower trim MS vehicles are getting $10k (not counting taxes on full price) discount.
2) The Ford Mach-E is basically dead as it is only eligible for $7.5k tax credit (that it enjoys now) when Model Y gets anew $10k tax credit making the LR DM MY less expensive than the Mach-E in most non-basic configurations.
3) Should Elon start a "Not-a-Union union"?
4) Should Tesla start construction of another Factory (closer to East coast, expand Buffalo factory maybe) ASAP?
5) Is it even legal for government to directly incentivize unions?

Electric car US tax credit proposed to $12,500, less for Tesla vehicles

A new bill to reform the federal electric car tax incentive in the US has passed the US Senate Finance...

electrek.co

I think that you missed the important caveat. these are PROPOSED. and I bet that whatever passes will be totally FUBAR

 

[mk677]

I don't think we need to help any specific manufacturers by rigging the competition to their side because this = government corruption. It would make sense though to provide government credits and just money for retooling and for workers education. And the bill proposes some retooling incentives too.

duh, the requirement for it to be union built is RIGGING.

 

[leonar40]

This post is misleading at best. Odds are none of those things will make it through as-is.

 

[Hookemhorns]

Mach-E AWD Extended Range is kinda an equivalent to MY LR DM. MSRP: Ford - $55,300; Tesla - $51,990. Considering that the Mach-E is smaller, slower, and has less range ... even if we don't count the future potential $2.5k tax incentive difference, they are not really competitive without Ford enjoying for now $7,5k tax credit advantage.

There's even a bigger difference. I'm having a hard time finding any Ford dealer that isn't adding on "mandatory" fees that Tesla does not, such as paperwork, processing, documentation, advertising, appearance package, vehicle preparation, and in the case of the Mach E just plain "additional dealer markup" that is sometimes thousands of dollars.

If all you are considering is price, there is a pretty big difference now and will be even more if the final bill keeps $10K rebate for American cars (Tesla) and $7.5K rebate for Mexican cars (Mach E)

 

[orion2001]

Considering that the Mach-E is smaller, slower, and has less range ...

I have to object to the statement above. Look up the Edmund's real-world EV range test, or a bunch of Mach-E vs MY range comparisons in the real-world (several videos are up on YT). The Mach-E has been beating the MY in real-world range tests due to its larger battery pack. Yes, the MY is more efficient from a Wh/mi perspective, but not nearly enough to make up for the different pack sizes. It is disappointing to see such large variability in EPA range values and Tesla definitely games it substantially to get to the 320+ Mi rating for the MY LR. Ford has gone with a much more conservative number and most folks are seeing higher range numbers than advertised, which you pretty much never see with Tesla cars.

 

[SO16]

I have to object to the statement above. Look up the Edmund's real-world EV range test, or a bunch of Mach-E vs MY range comparisons in the real-world (several videos are up on YT). The Mach-E has been beating the MY in real-world range tests due to its larger battery pack. Yes, the MY is more efficient from a Wh/mi perspective, but not nearly enough to make up for the different pack sizes. It is disappointing to see such large variability in EPA range values and Tesla definitely games it substantially to get to the 320+ Mi rating for the MY LR. Ford has gone with a much more conservative number and most folks are seeing higher range numbers than advertised, which you pretty much never see with Tesla cars.

Tesla’s often go well past 0 miles. Similar to how many gas cars go past Empty.

But I would prefer Tesla could say zero means zero. Just change their algorithm.

And I would prefer that all cars are measured the same way for distance. Tesla uses a different method for calculating range than Ford (which is allowed) but ridiculous. Makes it difficult to compare.

 

[mark95476]

Here's an example of "real-world" range in Tesla-central aka Silicon Valley. EPA range needs ~250 Wh/mi or 28 kWh for 100 miles.

2020 LR MY: Silicon Valley ==> 2500 ft mountains ==> Ocean ==> 2500 ft mountains ==> Silicon Valley

Charging 22 kWh probably costs the same amount as a gallon of premium gas (~$5) here.

I have to object to the statement above. Look up the Edmund's real-world EV range test, or a bunch of Mach-E vs MY range comparisons in the real-world (several videos are up on YT). The Mach-E has been beating the MY in real-world range tests due to its larger battery pack. Yes, the MY is more efficient from a Wh/mi perspective, but not nearly enough to make up for the different pack sizes. It is disappointing to see such large variability in EPA range values and Tesla definitely games it substantially to get to the 320+ Mi rating for the MY LR. Ford has gone with a much more conservative number and most folks are seeing higher range numbers than advertised, which you pretty much never see with Tesla cars.

Tesla’s often go well past 0 miles. Similar to how many gas cars go past Empty.

But I would prefer Tesla could say zero means zero. Just change their algorithm.

And I would prefer that all cars are measured the same way for distance. Tesla uses a different method for calculating range than Ford (which is allowed) but ridiculous. Makes it difficult to compare.

 

[Need]

Even the Model X could get the incentive if they put out a software limited range version. Buy the short range $79,999 Model X, get the $10,000 and pay $10K to Tesla for an upgrade.

 

[doomsday997]

This post is misleading at best. Odds are none of those things will make it through as-is.

Yep Absolutely misleading! This bill doesn't have a prayer of passing the senate filibuster. Only prayer is reconciliation but that is no guarantee and will very likely be highly watered down to pass even that as part of a bigger infrastructure bill. In other words, don't bet on this tax break happening.

 

[geoholt3]

Yeah, will wait for a final bill and exact wording, these things change all the time. I see FL bills all the time related to my industry from our lobbyist...these things are constantly getting struck out and modified all the time.

Only good thing is, there seems to be a general consensus and support for EV and tax credits and future amongst both Rep/Dem

Let's hope!!!

New tax incentives are giving $10k federal tax credit to all EVs produced in the US.
$12.5k - for EVs produced in the US on factories with union workers.
$7.5k to all other EVs.

1) All Tesla M3, MY, CT and potentially lower trim MS vehicles are getting $10k (not counting taxes on full price) discount.
2) The Ford Mach-E is basically dead as it is only eligible for $7.5k tax credit (that it enjoys now) when Model Y gets anew $10k tax credit making the LR DM MY less expensive than the Mach-E in most non-basic configurations.
3) Should Elon start a "Not-a-Union union"?
4) Should Tesla start construction of another Factory (closer to East coast, expand Buffalo factory maybe) ASAP?
5) Is it even legal for government to directly incentivize unions?

Electric car US tax credit proposed to $12,500, less for Tesla vehicles

A new bill to reform the federal electric car tax incentive in the US has passed the US Senate Finance...

electrek.co

What day is the actual day you bought the car according to the IRS? The day you put $100 in it?

 

[geoholt3]

What day does the IRS consider the day you bought the car?

 

[orion2001]

What day does the IRS consider the day you bought the car?

I believe it is the day you take delivery and sign the final documents.

 

[Tom Griff]

Just checked and don't see a vote scheduled yet. In terms of the Mach-E being dead, I doubt it. It is selling well. I test drove both a Mach-E and MY a few weeks ago, I thought the MY was a bit better to drive, but like the look of the Mach-e much better. Based on pretty consistent real worlds tests, the MY has a slight range advantage but not as much as EPA estimates indicate. Regardless of brand preference, the more EVs the better. Back to tax credits, if the new bill passes in some form, Tesla will be cheaper in the mid-level market. Interestingly as well, it would make a fully optioned Chevy Bolt EUV less than 30K as well and base models could be less than 20K if the bill passed as is (12.5K tax credit). The Bolt would be a very compelling car making EVs attainable for a lot more people.

 

[Roy2001]

If MY has $10k tax incentive and MX won't, I might cancel MX preorder and get a MY. 40k vs. 90k, not apple to apple, but the gap is huge.

 

[Msicario]

New tax incentives are giving $10k federal tax credit to all EVs produced in the US.
$12.5k - for EVs produced in the US on factories with union workers.
$7.5k to all other EVs.

1) All Tesla M3, MY, CT and potentially lower trim MS vehicles are getting $10k (not counting taxes on full price) discount.
2) The Ford Mach-E is basically dead as it is only eligible for $7.5k tax credit (that it enjoys now) when Model Y gets anew $10k tax credit making the LR DM MY less expensive than the Mach-E in most non-basic configurations.
3) Should Elon start a "Not-a-Union union"?
4) Should Tesla start construction of another Factory (closer to East coast, expand Buffalo factory maybe) ASAP?
5) Is it even legal for government to directly incentivize unions?

Electric car US tax credit proposed to $12,500, less for Tesla vehicles

A new bill to reform the federal electric car tax incentive in the US has passed the US Senate Finance...

electrek.co

Just read this morning that Musk is allowing workers to vote to unionize