Tesla (the company) killing itself slowly?

[krsgio]

Just dropped off my car at the Evans service center and saw your car there OP. I have a couple sensors in the rear bumper that are starting to sink and having them fixed under warranty. Was shocked that they told me they would have my car til next week... To remove my bumper and re-adhesive 2 sensors. Apparently they only have 3 techs working.

 

[Big Toys]

Not really. I just live in reality and understand the struggles of being a company that did not expand fast enough to meet demand. I dont have to constantly wine and complain about "oh my poor car has a little booboo and I demand to be put at the front of the line". Once you grow up and understand how it actually works let me know and we can have a real conversation.

You know, Musk's rockets don't seem to struggle with failure to perform as designed, and there an even newer rocket company. Sure an occasional booster falls into the ocean, but it's his, not the customer's. Would you give Amazon a pass if you didn't get your 2 day delivery as promised/paid for because they didn't prioritize shipping it out?

"struggles of being a company that did not expand fast enough to meet demand."

Yes, product is more important that the customer. A sure recipe for failure as every crummy business with a great product has found out. I thought Elon was brilliant?

 

[Ostrichsak]

Not making excuses at all. Its just the reality of the situation. I've worked for 2 startups in the last 15 years and both are still going strong but that does not mean we didnt struggle to keep our growth and service in balance. If you have never been in the situation that tesla is how can you even speak to it? They could ramp up service but other parts of the business would suffer and then you have the complaints for not making enough cars, not being innovative enough, not listening to customers, etc etc. You will never please everyone.

How long has Porsche, Mercedes, bmw, Honda, Toyota, Nissan etc been around? Do you honestly think they did it any better when they released there first mass production car? Model S and X were not mass production and still aren't.

You never please anyone so why even try, right? That's the stance Tesla has taken as of late. They even admitted numerous times at the highest level that they know service is a massive problem and are "working to resolve" it. Yet we have service centers that have gone down, not up, in the number of employees they have. How is this helping the situation? (rhetorical, it's not)

Sometimes the truth hurts and some people have a hard time with that.

Your reply could have done w/o this snarky statement.

I see all OEM's struggle to meet the service demands on a daily basis. Sure some people have zero issues and there problems are taken care of quickly but there are a bunch of people who have their vehicle sit there for weeks waiting on a part. This isn't a new problem but if it directly effects you then it seems like your issue is the only one that matters and people feel like they need to be taken care of and they dont care about others in front of them. This world is filled with entitled people.

Tesla knows there service sucks in a lot of areas but please tell us all what they can, will, should do without drastically effecting the rest of the company in a negative way.

It's pretty damn simple actually: take some of that quarterly profit and invest in more people. Lots of people. They're in an enviable situation where the solution is more people and most startup companies don't have the profit to hire. Tesla has a surplus and yet their service centers are shrinking. They did this with production as they hired more employees than they needed to meet demand. They then trained said employees to make them more efficient and replaced with automation where possible to save the bottom line. Why haven't they done this in service? It's pretty simple, they don't see it as a "demand" or "necessity" they way they did sales. He's been paying lip service for several quarters now saying they're aware and it's a priority and then.... nothing.

They need to hire a TON of new employees. Hell, maybe some they just canned from production were hard workers that would be better at customer service. They need to flood the service centers with people who can field calls and talk to customers. The biggest problem most are having right now isn't the problem itself but that they can't even talk to a human being who can learn that they're even having a problem and help to lay out a path to repair. This has nothing to do with expecting to be pampered but to get basic service for issues as a paying customer. There's nothing abnormal about that. I can absolutely flood this page with the horrid experiences I've had with three cars over the last year but I'm sparing you the details in interest of brevity. Just know that, at times, it was impossible to speak to a human being about things as serious as not having proper title work from the purchase of a car for nearly six months and cars being completely inoperable. Talking to a human being with the power to actually help with these problems would have completely changed the situation.

Showing a surplus of cash as a rapidly growing company only shows you're not investing back into the company to protect it and strengthen it moving forward. This is the last thing you want as a start-up and is exactly why people say Elon is catering to investors. Nobody expected them to turn a profit as early as they did but they're doing so at the cost of developing a poor reputation for customer service.

I don't care how good your idea is, if this is your business model you will fail.

“By failing to prepare, you are preparing to fail.” -Benjamin Franklin

 

[Ostrichsak]

Just dropped off my car at the Evans service center and saw your car there OP. I have a couple sensors in the rear bumper that are starting to sink and having them fixed under warranty. Was shocked that they told me they would have my car til next week... To remove my bumper and re-adhesive 2 sensors. Apparently they only have 3 techs working.

That last statement is telling and speaks to exactly what I'm talking about. Only three technicians to carry out repairs. That location needs probably 3x that number and your car would be done in a few hours the way it would at any other dealership regardless of what you paid or what brand is on it. Instead, they'll put someone in a loaner or Uber credit for a full week which will likely turn into 2 or 3 before it's actually completed properly. It would actually cost the time to hire more employees and just make repairs quickly and properly the first time.

 

[jebinc]

I'm kind of thinking that while Tesla is focused on getting the new pickup, roadster and semi rolling out of the factory, all of the other manufacturers will begin to flood the market with more modern tech (and less expensive) competitors to the MS, M3, MX and perhaps MY (which is based on today's M3 tech). If Tesla doesn't keep it current models "fresh," competitively priced and ready for the upcoming onslaught, they could go under as Semis and pickup trucks will not carry the company, as the M3 largely does today (even though they are remarkably in the red today). Time will tell and YMMV....​

 

[PWlakewood]

You never please anyone so why even try, right? That's the stance Tesla has taken as of late. They even admitted numerous times at the highest level that they know service is a massive problem and are "working to resolve" it. Yet we have service centers that have gone down, not up, in the number of employees they have. How is this helping the situation? (rhetorical, it's not)



Your reply could have done w/o this snarky statement.



It's pretty damn simple actually: take some of that quarterly profit and invest in more people. Lots of people. They're in an enviable situation where the solution is more people and most startup companies don't have the profit to hire. Tesla has a surplus and yet their service centers are shrinking. They did this with production as they hired more employees than they needed to meet demand. They then trained said employees to make them more efficient and replaced with automation where possible to save the bottom line. Why haven't they done this in service? It's pretty simple, they don't see it as a "demand" or "necessity" they way they did sales. He's been paying lip service for several quarters now saying they're aware and it's a priority and then.... nothing.

They need to hire a TON of new employees. Hell, maybe some they just canned from production were hard workers that would be better at customer service. They need to flood the service centers with people who can field calls and talk to customers. The biggest problem most are having right now isn't the problem itself but that they can't even talk to a human being who can learn that they're even having a problem and help to lay out a path to repair. This has nothing to do with expecting to be pampered but to get basic service for issues as a paying customer. There's nothing abnormal about that. I can absolutely flood this page with the horrid experiences I've had with three cars over the last year but I'm sparing you the details in interest of brevity. Just know that, at times, it was impossible to speak to a human being about things as serious as not having proper title work from the purchase of a car for nearly six months and cars being completely inoperable. Talking to a human being with the power to actually help with these problems would have completely changed the situation.

Showing a surplus of cash as a rapidly growing company only shows you're not investing back into the company to protect it and strengthen it moving forward. This is the last thing you want as a start-up and is exactly why people say Elon is catering to investors. Nobody expected them to turn a profit as early as they did but they're doing so at the cost of developing a poor reputation for customer service.

I don't care how good your idea is, if this is your business model you will fail.

“By failing to prepare, you are preparing to fail.” -Benjamin Franklin

So your solution is to take all the profit and add employees? It's actually a good business model to have some cash on hand which is why tesla was able to pay that 900 + million dollars. I do agree that reinvesting is key to success but does anyone know for a fact what tesla or elon does or doesnt do with profit.

 

[Krazaak]

That's a heartwarming story, and if my car came with TSLA stock I'd probably be more forgiving.

I'm not suggesting it excuses poor service, but Tesla has a fiduciary responsibility to both shareholders and owner's so don't think that just because you don't own stock that you're unaffected by their cost control measures.

The reality is that until Tesla is consistently profitable, they're going to suffer in some areas and it's almost always going to be the cost centers instead of profit centers.

They've got a lot they need to fix, but they're still the best EV game in town. I'm, perhaps naively, hopeful that once the plant in China is online and producing that they'll finally get some breathing room to fix what's broken.

 

[mtndrew1]

I know this is going against this thread’s grain but my service experiences have improved over the last year and a half.

I have a very early Model 3 and it had all the irritating little fixes that those cars needed at the time (dim DRLs, charge port flap, deformed A-pillar trim, etc).

When I needed those repairs the car would sit for a week or more, the wrong parts would come in, etc. Cars were piled up at the SC (this is before the Model 3 ramp).

Fast forward to a few weeks ago and I needed a new windshield (thx Arizona). Scheduled via the app, appointment available within three days, they had the car in the morning and it was done by the end of the day. Part in stock, organized SC without cars everywhere, techs available to perform the work.

Same with regular stuff (tire rotations, cabin filters) where they now come to my home to perform these where in the past the car would sit for two days at the SC for twenty minutes of work.

Despite being in the heart of Tesla country and the company having dramatically increased the size of their fleet my service experience has improved.

I’ve never had a premium brand before but it’s certainly better than the service I got with Chevy, Kia, Nissan or VW.

 

[Krazaak]

I know this is going against this thread’s grain but my service experiences have improved over the last year and a half.

I think people have some pretty rosy memories of dealerships from their previous cars. My Tesla service center has treated me as well or better than my previous Mercedes and BMW dealers. Obviously, some people are having different experiences and I wouldn't suggest they're lying, but Tesla service isn't a train wreck everywhere.

 

[mtndrew1]

I think people have some pretty rosy memories of dealerships from their previous cars. My Tesla service center has treated me as well or better than my previous Mercedes and BMW dealers. Obviously, some people are having different experiences and I wouldn't suggest they're lying, but Tesla service isn't a train wreck everywhere.

I agree. I don’t want to diminish bad service where it’s happening and if experiences need to be improved, then the company should certainly do so.

My Nissan Leaf needed a new HV battery under warranty. I couldn’t get an appointment for nearly a month, they denied the claim and accused me of rolling back the odometer because they had their scan tool in kilometers instead of miles, the battery took six weeks to arrive, and they were surly about the whole event.

Kia left my car in pieces for more than three weeks for a new nav unit because they disassembled the car before realizing they couldn’t get the part.

Chevy substantially damaged my car, twice, and blamed it on me.

Again this is my first premium brand but I don’t have any fond memories of previous service experiences with other (pedestrian) brands.

 

[Ostrichsak]

So your solution is to take all the profit and add employees? It's actually a good business model to have some cash on hand which is why tesla was able to pay that 900 + million dollars. I do agree that reinvesting is key to success but does anyone know for a fact what tesla or elon does or doesnt do with profit.

Yes. That's absolutely what Tesla needs to do. They should have done that last year and here we are still discussing it in August of 2019.

Startups aren't expected to turn a profit for some time. It just so happens that Tesla started turning a profit ahead of schedule which also coincided with the start of all the customer service issues. Coincidence? Hardly. The two are directly related and good customer service costs money to maintain.

Once they can satisfy demand for customer service they can turn boat loads of profit and I'll applaud their growth. When you show a profit at the blatant & obvious expense of customer service that's not a sustainable business model and it will implode upon itself.

 

[Ostrichsak]

I'm not suggesting it excuses poor service, but Tesla has a fiduciary responsibility to both shareholders and owner's so don't think that just because you don't own stock that you're unaffected by their cost control measures.

The reality is that until Tesla is consistently profitable, they're going to suffer in some areas and it's almost always going to be the cost centers instead of profit centers.

They've got a lot they need to fix, but they're still the best EV game in town. I'm, perhaps naively, hopeful that once the plant in China is online and producing that they'll finally get some breathing room to fix what's broken.

So you think that the solution to supporting the customer is creating more customers through increased production?

You should apply for the next upper-level management position that opens @ Tesla because you'd fit right in.

 

[Ostrichsak]

I agree. I don’t want to diminish bad service where it’s happening and if experiences need to be improved, then the company should certainly do so.

My Nissan Leaf needed a new HV battery under warranty. I couldn’t get an appointment for nearly a month, they denied the claim and accused me of rolling back the odometer because they had their scan tool in kilometers instead of miles, the battery took six weeks to arrive, and they were surly about the whole event.

Kia left my car in pieces for more than three weeks for a new nav unit because they disassembled the car before realizing they couldn’t get the part.

Chevy substantially damaged my car, twice, and blamed it on me.

Again this is my first premium brand but I don’t have any fond memories of previous service experiences with other (pedestrian) brands.

In each and every instance you had a local number to call and a local contact to speak with that saw your transaction through from beginning to end. Even if you wanted to call hourly and talk to someone else because your point of contact was away you'd get to talk to a local human being that could get you answers. It's called accountability and it's something Tesla can't possibly provide with the grossly inadequate number of service representatives and technicians they currently employ at most facilities.

 

[PWlakewood]

Yes. That's absolutely what Tesla needs to do. They should have done that last year and here we are still discussing it in August of 2019.

Startups aren't expected to turn a profit for some time. It just so happens that Tesla started turning a profit ahead of schedule which also coincided with the start of all the customer service issues. Coincidence? Hardly. The two are directly related and good customer service costs money to maintain.

Once they can satisfy demand for customer service they can turn boat loads of profit and I'll applaud their growth. When you show a profit at the blatant & obvious expense of customer service that's not a sustainable business model and it will implode upon itself.

So are you privy to these facts of yours because you sit in on meetings or does elon call you personally?

So let's say they hire people with all the profit. What happens when they need cash for something?

 

[Ostrichsak]

So are you privy to these facts of yours because you sit in on meetings or does elon call you personally?

So now I need to be a doctor to know that I can't walk on my broken leg?

So let's say they hire people with all the profit. What happens when they need cash for something?

They do need cash for something: customer service.

 

[mtndrew1]

In each and every instance you had a local number to call and a local contact to speak with that saw your transaction through from beginning to end. Even if you wanted to call hourly and talk to someone else because your point of contact was away you'd get to talk to a local human being that could get you answers. It's called accountability and it's something Tesla can't possibly provide with the grossly inadequate number of service representatives and technicians they currently employ at most facilities.

While this is not exactly accurate (quite a few unreturned calls and many instances of being entirely ignored for days) I agree with the premise that this service needs to be available.

While Tesla’s online service is working well for me now there are places where a live human would be much appreciated. I’d like to buy a part (white dash trim swap) and don’t know how to make that happen aside from driving up to the SC and wasting everyone’s time.

So yes, I’m in total agreement that there should be a way to contact a real person even if it’s a centralized call center situation. I hope they add this to their service system.

 

[Krazaak]

Again this is my first premium brand but I don’t have any fond memories of previous service experiences with other (pedestrian) brands.

My BMW dealer broke all the clips off my rear bumper installing a trailer hitch on my X5M. I didn't notice until I stepped on it loading something and it came almost completely off. After 2 attempts for fix it with plastic welds and adhesive they finally replaced. When I traded the X5M for an X6M, I removed and installed the hitch myself without breaking anything. Same dealership overfilled the oil on my M6 three times, despite me bringing them the TSB after the first failure. They broke numerous clips which they never replaced. They pried apart the wood trim on my M6 dash to replace a broken latch in my arm rest storage, breaking the trim and the frame it clipped into. They overfilled refrigerant after an AC service making the compressor lock up less than 200ft out of the dealership. I switched dealers to a slightly further location which was a little better, but still not perfect.

Never did they alert me to the damage, I had to discover it on my own.

Heck, I just bought a CPO BMW i8 from a different BMW dealer a couple weeks ago and they had the front tires on the wrong side, it was leaking oil from the filter and they apparently filled the trunk with about 2" of water when they were cleaning it. They had to ship me a new trunk liner.

 

[Krazaak]

So you think that the solution to supporting the customer is creating more customers through increased production?

You should apply for the next upper-level management position that opens @ Tesla because you'd fit right in.

And your solution is what, stop selling cars and go bankrupt? I'm sure our service will improve once a creditor is managing it.

Tesla needs to improve their service and QA, I agree 100%, but that's not going to happen if there's no Tesla.

 

[PWlakewood]

In each and every instance you had a local number to call and a local contact to speak with that saw your transaction through from beginning to end. Even if you wanted to call hourly and talk to someone else because your point of contact was away you'd get to talk to a local human being that could get you answers. It's called accountability and it's something Tesla can't possibly provide with the grossly inadequate number of service representatives and technicians they currently employ at most facilities.

How big is tesla compared to other companies? Number of sc to sc. It takes time to build the service infrastructure and everyone knows tesla is behind. Not a simple or quick fix

 

[PWlakewood]

My BMW dealer broke all the clips off my rear bumper installing a trailer hitch on my X5M. I didn't notice until I stepped on it loading something and it came almost completely off. After 2 attempts for fix it with plastic welds and adhesive they finally replaced. When I traded the X5M for an X6M, I removed and installed the hitch myself without breaking anything. Same dealership overfilled the oil on my M6 three times, despite me bringing them the TSB after the first failure. They broke numerous clips which they never replaced. They pried apart the wood trim on my M6 dash to replace a broken latch in my arm rest storage, breaking the trim and the frame it clipped into. They overfilled refrigerant after an AC service making the compressor lock up less than 200ft out of the dealership. I switched dealers to a slightly further location which was a little better, but still not perfect.

Never did they alert me to the damage, I had to discover it on my own.

Heck, I just bought a CPO BMW i8 from a different BMW dealer a couple weeks ago and they had the front tires on the wrong side, it was leaking oil from the filter and they apparently filled the trunk with about 2" of water when they were cleaning it. They had to ship me a new trunk liner.

Thank you for this. Some people think Tesla is the only manufacturer with issues. Every OEM has similar issues.