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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

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I really want to know is during the Semi reveal, were those specs based on old or new cells in mind?

They would have been based on the new cells, as Tesla and Elon had imagined them back then.

That was the only way to explain the Semi, and also the Roadster with its 600mile range.

When asked about the Roadster range, Elon said it would have a double row of batteries but that never made sense. With the old cells, The Roadster would end up heavier than a Model S!

You cant just keep adding batteries to increase performance specs. This means the car gets heavier and heavier and more and more inefficient as the Audi e-tron and Porsche Taycan show
 
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Do we know what percentage of phones and tablets are Apple? I expect Tesla to achieve similar for cars. 60% seems a very high figure to me. With the exception of the Model S (a premium niche product) and the Roadster (even more niche) I intensely dislike the styling of all the other models.

I'm all in on TSLA and have been since 2012 with my life savings and they don't come more bullish than me, so their must be a significant percentage of the great majority of none investors out there who won't buy based on design/styling either?

I would add that I hope I am woefully wrong on this!
Apple has 13.5% of total phone marketshare but it's revenue is like 50% of world. Lot's of cheap cheap android phones flooding China and India.
 
They would have been based on the new cells, as Tesla and Elon had imagined them back then.

That was the only way to explain the Semi, and also the Roadster with its 600mile range.

When asked about the Roadster range, Elon said it would have a double row of batteries but that never made sense. With the old cells, The Roadster would end up heavier than a Model S!

You cant just keep adding batteries to increase performance specs. This means the car gets heavier and heavier and more and more inefficient as the Audi e-tron and Porsche Taycan show
Well roadster was demonstrated and I seriously doubt they had 4680 cells prototype stuffed into the roadster which is probably two years prior to the event in design.
 
They would have been based on the new cells, as Tesla and Elon had imagined them back then.

That was the only way to explain the Semi, and also the Roadster with its 600mile range.

When asked about the Roadster range, Elon said it would have a double row of batteries but that never made sense. With the old cells, The Roadster would end up heavier than a Model S!

You cant just keep adding batteries to increase performance specs. This means the car gets heavier and heavier and more and more inefficient as the Audi e-tron and Porsche Taycan show


I think a Model 3 battery pack is 1,000 pounds.
I assume that the Semi is 12 x 1,000, 12,000 pounds for the battery.
With the wheel configuration it can legally tow 40,000 pounds.
Assuming 4 Model 3 motors one question is if it had tne power to tow that load and that is partially how effective regen braking would be.

Long story short, perhaps the original semi prototypes were just stiched together Model 3 components...

Perhaps my maths is wrong, but I never understood the concern about the battery pack weight. How the wheel configuration limits towing weight is not readily understood. Something like multi-wheel split axle is 20,000 pounds per axle.

I don't understand what wheel/axle configuration will allow it to tow more than 40,000 pounds I assume that needs 3 axles?
 
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Just stop it! Myself and the wife whilst planning retirement from necessary work over the weekend came to the conclusion that we won't make very good wealthy people. We can't even bring ourselves to make the switch from Aldi/Lidl to Sainsburys, and I almost never buy anything based on brand image, and my clothes are all scruffy! Still it's good for hiding in plain sight I suppose as I'm not much of an extravert.

You are not alone! We are agonising over whether to switch from Nespresso to coffee brewed in a pot because the capsules are expensive. Given our financial position, this is crazy :)
 
Do we know what percentage of phones and tablets are Apple? I expect Tesla to achieve similar for cars. 60% seems a very high figure to me. Now, with the exception of the Model S (a premium niche product) and the Roadster, (even more niche) I personally don't like the styling of all the other models. I'm all in on TSLA and have been since 2012 with my life savings and they don't come more bullish than me, so their must be a significant percentage of the great majority of none investors out there who won't buy based on design/styling either?

I would add that I hope I am woefully wrong on this!

im with you on the styling. My next car will be an EV and if I were to buy today it would probably be a Y. However, I’m not big on the styling inside or out. Also, we are in the market for a 3 row SUV and the X is just way to expensive.
 
Just stop it! Myself and the wife whilst planning retirement from necessary work over the weekend came to the conclusion that we won't make very good wealthy people. We can't even bring ourselves to make the switch from Aldi/Lidl to Sainsburys, and I almost never buy anything based on brand image, and my clothes are all scruffy! Still it's good for hiding in plain sight I suppose as I'm not much of an extravert.

Thats OK. My neighbors would never imagine our net worth. My family didnt make a lot of money and same for my wifes. We have invested wisely and created and sold an IT consulting business. Yet we still shop around, like deals, buy things on sale versus not pay attention to price. Yet I wear shorts and sweats all the time, Star Wars T-Shirts 90% of the days of the year and I cant stand to get dressed up in a suit. Only thing stopping us from retiring is the awful healthcare system in the US.
 
I think a Model 3 battery pack is 1,000 pounds.
I assume that the Semi is 12 x 1,000, 12,000 pounds for the battery.
With the wheel configuration it can legally tow 40,000 pounds.
Assuming 4 Model 3 motors one question is if it had tne power to tow that load and that is partially how effective regen braking would be.

Long story short, perhaps the original semi prototypes were just stiched together Model 3 components...

Perhaps my maths is wrong, but I never understood the concern about the battery pack weight. How the wheel configuration limits towing weight is not readily understood. Something like multi-wheel split axle is 20,000 pounds per axle.

I don't understand what wheel/axle configuration will allow it to tow more than 40,000 pounds I assume that needs 3 axles?


Front (steering) axle limit: 12k lbs
Dual drive axle limit: 34k
Trailer dual axel limit: 34k
Max gross: 80k
If Tesla runs different pressures to the rear air suspension, or offsets the king pin, they can better load up the front axle to help max out trailer weight (not that it should be an issue)

Edit; a single (non steering, non tandem) axle is limited to 20k pounds, that may have caused the confusion.
 
Front (steering) axle limit: 12k lbs
Dual drive axle limit: 34k
Trailer dual axel limit: 34k
Max gross: 80k
If Tesla runs different pressures to the rear air suspension, or offsets the king pin, they can better load up the front axle to help max out trailer weight (not that it should be an issue)

Edit; a single (non steering, non tandem) axle is limited to 20k pounds, that may have caused the confusion.
How Mongo know so much?
 
i am in disbelief that Cathie Wood could have made such a fundamental error. The best I can come up with is that she was trying to say that OTHERS in Wall St were conflating a new $25K car with a big reduction in the Model 3s price, but there’s nothing in the tweet’s wording to bolster that “others” theory.
Yes it does make you wonder whether she was even watching battery day. I love Ark Invest but this is a big clanger.

Or maybe she just made a typo..?

I think people are making a bigger deal from this than it is worth, IMO..

Whether she wrote Model 2 or Model 3, it changes nothing to the argument she was making..
 
Thats OK. My neighbors would never imagine our net worth. My family didnt make a lot of money and same for my wifes. We have invested wisely and created and sold an IT consulting business. Yet we still shop around, like deals, buy things on sale versus not pay attention to price. Yet I wear shorts and sweats all the time, Star Wars T-Shirts 90% of the days of the year and I cant stand to get dressed up in a suit. Only thing stopping us from retiring is the awful healthcare system in the US.
Doesn't your net worth become public record or at least very easy to hack once you pay taxes on a taxed investment account?

(says another scruffy guy who spends crazy time trying to spoon every last drop of goo from each cat food container.)
 
Was thinking about the effect that the upcoming US election will have in the SP.

The SP has done well under both party administrations, and this post is not about which party is better.

I’m interested in hearing thoughts on the impacts of the election on TSLA, whether that’s as a result of dropped macros during a likely period of uncertainty of outcome? Or other factors that could impact the SP and what you think it might do, and why - between Oct and January.

Biden Wins Bull case: Green New Deal will strengthen Tesla's position and bolster sales in the US.
Biden Wins Bear case: Democratic leadership keeps attacking Elon Musk and will favor anyone but Tesla. Risk of COVID-related shutdowns increase.
Thanks to international expansion, this will have limited impact on Tesla globally, but slow growth somewhat.
 
I don't want to give anyone a heart attack but for a laugh I just plugged in the 20m cars production figure into my (very high level, not very detailed, full of assumptions and therefore shouldn't be relied upon) spreadsheet, and it gave me a share price of $3,400 and market cap of $3.2tn.

Please forget this as soon as you have read it :)
Kindly plug in FSD and Energy as well and make us laugh some more.
 
The market lept up after the election 4yrs ago. All kinds of stocks went up. It was due to the removal of uncertainty. I think it would have done the same thing had Clinton been elected.

This time around there is certainly the same level of uncertainty weighing on the market, and if the current behviour (rallying) is anything to go by, it will explode after the election. There may be some volatility if the result is contested or delayed.
 
i am in disbelief that Cathie Wood could have made such a fundamental error. The best I can come up with is that she was trying to say that OTHERS in Wall St were conflating a new $25K car with a big reduction in the Model 3s price, but there’s nothing in the tweet’s wording to bolster that “others” theory.
We hope she did not make such an egregious error, but she clearly did. Elon did correct her.
It seems quite a few people, generally knowledgable ones, have missed four major known facts regarding Tesla plans:
1) Both in Germany and China there will be/are design centers that will develop new smaller vehicles;
2) We have zero statement about where those new vehicles will be produced, other than the assumption that they probably will be produced first in the country where they will be designed;
3) Continuing factory and product refinement will take place with new factories better than existing ones, every time.
Point three was not ever said in those words but has been regularly reiterated.

I hoped and expected that investors I admired, including Ms. Wood, would understand those points.

This might be a trifle less obvious, but clearly has been disclosed.
4) Cells will be acquired from existing suppliers (CATL, LG, Panasonic maybe SK coming) for the foreseeable future, but we have no direct information about cell format, specifically 'tables' or not, but, CATL does have 'cell to pack' right now. In addition CATL is known to be an established leader in low-cost cells, including cobalt-free. Nobody has even hinted whether the form factors, tabless or chemistry, much less production process, will be adopted by suppliers.

It really should not be surprising that anyone, including ourselves, could leave Battery Day without more questions than answers.
Those who suggest that there is more advance than is being disclosed probably are correct.

If the above is true then Elon/Tesla are underpromising and will be overdelivering.

The first giant-sized hint will be October 2 or soon after when we see the effects of Tesla actually delivering more than 140,000 vehicles in Q3, with TE at record levels. We might also hear hints about record TE backlogs and Q4 growth expectations. If those things happen we'll be confident that exactly nobody understands the gigantic impact of finally making a substantial innovation in cell production and battery design. This 'ain't no trivial 7% per year'.

Really, the only comparison that makes sense to me is rocket reuse. I think this may well be just as consequential. Thus, just as SpaceX is production constrained so too will be Tesla, for years to come.

I detest Kool-Aid!