Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[Stone_Watcher]

When are they announcing who is being cut?

I read earlier it was 75 minutes after closing bell. So 5 minutes now. I don’t know where to see said announcement. Someone will post it

 

[Christine69420]

I am within a few hundred thousand $ of hitting my financial goal with TSLA, but I am not ready to be done with so many exciting things on Tesla’s horizon. Thinking about upping my goal and just continuing the HODL strategy. Maybe I should be thinking more about an exit date versus an exit $ amount.

I am sure I am not the only one to be considering these things. Thoughts?

I did set a date and an amount. Whichever came first.

I am no way near the date and way past the amount.

So early next year I will start selling down very slowly - over decades. While holding most of it for many many years. My plans are not very developed yet. But there will be holidays, better housing and more Tesla cars in my future. I've already stopped working. Which is great in itself when you are middle aged. Now I need to make plans for the future. In addition to hanging on TMC and listening to polka music that is.

 

[Tyler34]

I read earlier it was 75 minutes after closing bell. So 5 minutes now. I don’t know where to see said announcement. Someone will post it

It'll be here if not posted on TMC by someone with bloomberg terminal access Media Center - News & Announcements - S&P Dow Jones Indices

 

[Bet TSLA]

60 dollars post split. TSLA was at $300 (60 post split) last June. And its way more bullish than just selling the put as you describe.

Ah, different time. But you still have something wrong, I think. TSLA was around 200 in June, getting to a high close of 215.96 on the last day of the month. At 300 you were in July or August, when again anything you might do that was bullish would make you money like crazy.

And yes, most things involving buying calls are more bullish than selling puts. But your collar is much less bullish than just buying calls. Safer though, although you still get killed on a hard downdraft.

 

[MP3Mike]

So the company leaving the S&P 500 is Apartment Investment & Mgt (AIV)

But OXY is getting removed from the S&P100 and replaced by TSLA.

https://www.spglobal.com/spdji/en/d...211-1277389/1277389_tes15aircaivspindnkn4.pdf

As previously announced on November 16, Tesla Inc. (NASD:TSLA) will be added to the S&P 500. Tesla will replace Apartment Investment and Management Co. (NYSE:AIV). Tesla will also be added to the S&P 100, replacing Occidental Petroleum Corp. (NYSE:OXY). Occidental Petroleum will remain in the S&P 500. Apartment Income REIT Corp. (NYSE:AIRC) will replace Dunkin' Brands Group Inc. (NASDNKN) in the S&P MidCap 400. Apartment Investment and Management is spinning off Apartment Income REIT in a transaction expected to be completed post close on Monday, December 14. Post spin-off, Apartment Investment and Management will no longer be representative of the S&P Composite 1500 indices market cap ranges. Inspire Brands Inc. is acquiring Dunkin’ Brands Group in a tender offer expected to expire on or about Tuesday, December 15.

Are to pro-forma files made available to the public, or are they subscription only?

 

[Tachyon]

AIV in SP500 and
OXY in SP100

 

[Tyler34]

Ah, different time. But you still have something wrong, I think. TSLA was around 200 in June, getting to a high close of 215.96 on the last day of the month. At 300 you were in July or August, when again anything you might do that was bullish would make you money like crazy.

And yes, most things involving buying calls are more bullish than selling puts. But your collar is much less bullish than just buying calls. Safer though, although you still get killed on a hard downdraft.

It's not a collar bro. If you took the 237k you just made from selling puts and bought calls with that, thats bullish AF. That is more bullish than just buying calls since I was able to buy about twice as many calls as I could've with just cash.

Edit: and yeah it may have been in July or August. I started in June and adjusted later, and again adjusted in December to get to the 49/100 synthetic that I still hold now. It was just an example.

 

[Tslynk67]

When are they announcing who is being cut?

Now...

$TSLA added to S&P100 as well as S&P500

Index News Dec 11, 2020 5:15 PM Tesla Set to Join S&P 500 & 100; Apartment Income REIT to Join S&P MidCap 400

Edit - is that more Tendies?

 

[JusRelax]

AIV in SP500 and
OXY in SP100

Replacing an Oil/Petroleum company in S&P100 is a huge win in my book! Go Tesla!

 

[M|S|M MYP]

 

[TheTalkingMule]

So, did anybody short OXY? (ironic name for a carbon company, wot?)

Cheers!

Goddamnit, was it FVUIFNG Oxy??? I've got three put orders sitting in my queue. Jesus, they're literally going to zero if they're getting the boot.

Edit: OK, sweet. They're still in the 500 at least. Wait til July and buy $12 2023 puts when they're at $30

 

[M|S|M MYP]

Now...

$TSLA added to S&P100 as well as S&P500

Index News Dec 11, 2020 5:15 PM Tesla Set to Join S&P 500 & 100; Apartment Income REIT to Join S&P MidCap 400

Edit - is that more Tendies?

Not according to AH SP right now....eh...is it Monday yet??

 

[EV forever]

Not as satisfying as replacing Exxon, but still, they did bump off a petroleum company from the S&P100

 

[TheTalkingMule]

The point is, what's the point if it greatly under-performs buy and hold and doesn't offer any additional protection to downside risk? In fact, this strategy will ensure the largest position during a lengthy downturn.

Sometimes I wonder where people's heads are at! Even as a complete newbie investor back in the 1980's I didn't hold such naive ideas. The idea is to build wealth. Not to have an outside chance at building wealth.

It works if you simply want to accumulate. I do not and likely will not even acknowledge downside risk in TSLA.

 

[Bet TSLA]

No, that is a highly aggressive and risky strategy, definitely not for the timid.

The strategy @Tyler34 is explaining is also called a "synthetic long" - it is a strategy that pays out big if stock goes up, but can get you in serious trouble if stock goes down. Note - he made money with almost no net investment - so returns are extremely high.

The risk - if the stock went down, then the long call that was purchased expires worthless. The put that was sold, if the stock went below the strike, you are on the hook to purchase those shares. When Tesla was $60/share - could be as late as mid 2019 - remember the stock dropped all the way to $40/share in 2019. So, if this was done over 2018 - 2019, worst case scenario - @Tyler34 would have required to buy shares at $49 when the stock had dropped to $40.

You have this wrong too. A synthetic long is when you buy a call and sell a put at the current price. I've seen buying both options out of the money called a "split strike synthetic long" but it has quite a different risk profile.

In any case, what's being done here is timid compared to simply buying out of the money calls. How it compares to just buying straight stock depends (I think) on the details of exactly what strike prices and expiration dates you are dealing with. And given when it was done, it was a time when the more aggressive you were the more money you made. I got lucky and was extremely leveraged in August -- lots of calls and few short puts.

 

[Tes La Ferrari]

When do they announce Tesla’s index weighting % ?

 

[Runarbt]

Anyone have any numbers on what addition of TSLA to S&P100 might add in shares that needs to be bought?

Should add some extra buying pressure?

 

[MP3Mike]

When do they announce Tesla’s index weighting % ?

That comes in the pro-forma files which probably only go to the people that license the S&P500 product.

 

[Tyler34]

You have this wrong too. A synthetic long is when you buy a call and sell a put at the current price. I've seen buying both options out of the money called a "split strike synthetic long" but it has quite a different risk profile.

In any case, what's being done here is timid compared to simply buying out of the money calls. How it compares to just buying straight stock depends (I think) on the details of exactly what strike prices and expiration dates you are dealing with. And given when it was done, it was a time when the more aggressive you were the more money you made. I got lucky and was extremely leveraged in August -- lots of calls and few short puts.

Nope, hes right. Do you want to talk numbers. My 5k investment is now worth 2.4million 1.5 years later. 480x, But sure keep calling it timid.

 

[bkp_duke]

I believe I mentioned this (non-TSLA) event last week:
Oracle moving from California to Texas, joins Tesla, Hewlett Packard