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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

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A single human no. But a group of humans (the more, the better), yes. It‘s called Psychohistory.

Yes, but in this context, the situation is far from static. So any certainty you model goes right out the window. Because humans, even as a group, can flip based on many things besides price. There's no way to model that. I'm not saying a model can't be useful tool - but it's just one small tool in a very large toolbox.
 
Probably won’t see any real buying before the 24th.

It’s just human nature to wait till the last minute to do your homework. /s :p

I don't really think there will be a scenario like that. Some index funds have rules they have to buy their shares within the 3 trading days before inclusion date and some have rules for 3 days after. I think volume will be pretty consistent starting tomorrow, with a peak on Friday and Monday (in terms of volume, not necessarily a peak in stock price)
 
It wouldn't be about beating the Index, it would be about providing liquidity to the market to minimize the distortive effect that an addition of this size could have. This has the feel of something that S&P facilitated with the market makers.

I don't think it's wise to ignore the probability of something like this. And it's almost certainly going on with many of the benchmarked funds.


I don't think it's wise to imagine a huge liquidity shortage when the numbers don't seem to support it.

Even the most heavily time-restricted index funds have roughly 6 trading days to buy in. Some have even more time.

Benchmark funds have no time limits at all.

Total amount the indexes need is roughly 2.5 days average volume.

So even in "average" conditions there's plenty of liquidity for them to fill their buys in the time they have.

In a situation like this one, where we know at least SOME significant # of shares have been front-run specifically to sell for a profit to the index funds, it should be even less of an issue.

Now if you're just straight HODL- you don't care. You're not selling at 500, 600, 700, or anything right now. So whatever.

If you're looking to exit some position on this spike though- you're effectively playing chicken with all the other folks hoping to do the same.

If the index funds MUST buy 15% of the float, and you're someone who thinks it's gonna spike to $1200 and you'll sell then, you're going to need to hope there's not 15% of holders who had a lower "profit enough" target than you did.

I think there's lots of dedicated TSLA longs here who do have 4-figure targets they'll sell for (some higher than 1200 even).

But I'd be pretty surprised if there's not 15% of the float well below that number for sale.

I'm not gonna claim to have any chance of guessing what the top is.... but I'd happily take any reliable better than even money bet on it being 3 figures rather than 4 to the left of the decimal.
 
Ben Sullins has gone downhill lately, IMO. With his grotesque thumbnails and playing drama queen all the time.
AoA guy had terrible "reviews" of the M3 and MY. Very vague, full of bias and cherry picking stuff mostly against Tesla cars. He mostly lives off ICE car reviews so maybe that is why he is so terrible.

Ben Sullins fell out of my favor sometime in 2019. He was good early on with Tesla when he stuck to what he knows, statistics and data. But when it came to giving opinions and perspectives, I would get a gag reflex. He no longer exists to me so your comment was like a "blast from the past", lol!
 
I don't really think there will be a scenario like that. Some index funds have rules they have to buy their shares within the 3 trading days before inclusion date and some have rules for 3 days after. I think volume will be pretty consistent starting tomorrow, with a peak on Friday and Monday (in terms of volume, not necessarily a peak in stock price)
Ummm, it was a joke. That’s what the /s and :p are there to indicate.

I don’t consider it a realistic scenario either.
 
This should squash rumors of 4680s out of Fremont any time soon.

Screen Shot 2020-12-15 at 9.23.56 AM.png
 
This assumes speculators own enough shares to satisfy demand, which I doubt given volume hasn't been all that high since announcement. But I could be wrong.

Another thing to consider is that the front-runners don't actually benefit from the type of agreement you are describing.

Why do you think it has to be speculators and front-runners selling? TSLA is up 600% this year. There are almost certainly many institutional holders who want to sell but have been waiting for the S&P inclusion to do so. They could have deals in place to sell massive quantities of shares to S&P funds in dark pools on Dec 18. Short sellers could have similar deals in place to provide shares - I doubt they've just given up on TSLA..
 
FWIW...

1. Anybody who has really good analytics will not post them for free.
2. The best understanding of TSLA fundamentals might well be among TSLA retail shareholders who are devoted to the corporate mission.
3.1 and 2 might be mutually exclusive.
4. Some data intensive approaches here do actually have good insight.
5. It's an open question whether I know enough to reach these conclusions, after all this is an open forum.


And I posted a prediction graph that was too good even the mods didn't want you to see it.
 
I don't think it's wise to imagine a huge liquidity shortage when the numbers don't seem to support it.

It's not me who's imagining a huge liquidity shortage - it's many people on this thread. I think some kind of bump is probable (but not a given) and, if it happens it will not be nearly as dramatic as our local polls indicate are expected.

I also think it's very likely that potential liquidity issues were a primary source of discussion that led to the delay of S&P admitting TSLA to the Index. There was no way they were going to admit a company as large and volatile as TSLA until it was clear to them it wouldn't turn in the biggest market circus of 2020.
 
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FWIW...

1. Anybody who has really good analytics will not post them for free.

Fundamentally disagree. In my opinion, if "really good analytics" to predict markets existed, those methods would be generally known. Humans are ABSOLUTE GARBAGE at keeping secrets. Ego almost always trumps self-interest.