Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[dc_h]

I'll never understand why some people chew him out for the jet. Seriously, you think any of his companies are best served by having him sit around waiting to fly commercial? Or, re: SF-LA... are they best served by him taking a bus or train, and taking half a day to get there? I mean, it's a ridiculous line of argument.

I honestly think that most people who make it know that it's a ridiculous argument, but still want to hit him with it because everyone hates rich people with private planes.

The jet can double his available working days every year. He can fly SF to LA in 30/45 minutes. Traffic to and from the airport may be more time. Commercial could waste most of the day. Cross country is even a bigger waste and he can work or sleep and still be done in 3-4 hours. He can also take the jet at top speed, which commercial doesn’t. LA to DC at 550 mph is under 5 hrs, commercial would be 7, plus 2-3 hours getting through security. For anyone making over a million or two a year, some form of private flight is worth considering.

 

[Anstandswauwau]

Somebody here called yesterday that we'd get a MS downgrade today. Who wants to claim their prize?

Seriously, Jonas. Try harder.

Insider trading, stock manipulation!!! Quick, call the SEC!

 

[Fact Checking]

Insider trading, stock manipulation!!! Quick, call the SEC!

Stock analysts are explicitly exempt from market manipulation regulations.

 

[X Fan]

Some morning good news: just under 60 hrs left to reveal.....

 

[Anstandswauwau]

Stock analysts are explicitly exempt from market manipulation regulations.

Serious q:

But is this still true for 3rd party entities? Say, if analysts inform friends, family etc. of planned, yet unannounced up-/downgrades?

Thanks.

 

[Unpilot]

Well that was weird...over my morning coffee I looked at Tesla SP..(both actions are very habitual) and It was up something like 79 cents.
I then looked at TMC and saw the MS downgrade and rechecked and the SP was down 1.4%?

I guess I have to blame all you TMC posters for the fall!

 

[Dan Detweiler]

I'll never understand why some people chew him out for the jet. Seriously, you think any of his companies are best served by having him sit around waiting to fly commercial? Or, re: SF-LA... are they best served by him taking a bus or train, and taking half a day to get there? I mean, it's a ridiculous line of argument.

I honestly think that most people who make it know that it's a ridiculous argument, but still want to hit him with it because everyone hates rich people with private planes.

Maybe he should be like American politicians and just use military transport (at the expense of the American taxpayer) to do their Christmas shopping, run to WalMart, or any other personal travel. Ain't hypocrisy grand? lol!

Dan

 

[lascavarian]

It's the decades old, tried and true method of attacking any global warming opponent via a false narrative of 'double standard' and 'hypocrisy' if they ever rely on existing infrastructure and existing social norms that rely on fossil fuels.

It worked against Al Gore, they are using it against Elon Musk too, not just in the Tesla context, but also via the 'SpaceX is burning a lot of kerosene' talking points - ignoring the fact that there are no electric private jets yet and that are no viable methods at the moment to get off this rock without combusting rocket fuel with oxidant.

But the accuracy of their claims doesn't matter - the slur is part of orchestrated character attacks, and it works by creating a false appearance of hypocrisy and double standard, to the casual observe.

Added to this is the general focus of bots amplifying conflict. Seems these days almost point of discussion is an opportunity to amplify divisions and conflict.

 

[Johnny Ma]

Ugh, this "unforced error" of the stores closing/not closing as many all of a sudden and its effect on prices is making me consider paying more than I want to for the car. The flip-flopping looks like a poor decision from a managerial perspective, but from a sales perspective, I think it might push a lot of people that were on the fence to pull the trigger. And make a lot more get AP/FSD before price increases again.

Also, just to note, customer service is as poor as ever. I can't get my delivery advisor to respond at all, even after switching to a higher spec model that should get me the car much faster. Good thing I'm patient and already expected this.

 

[Thekiwi]

Hypothetical:

Elon: “Hey, CFO, what’s our biggest cost we could cut that doesn’t impact production of vehicles?”
Zach: “Your private jet?”
Elon “No, but seriously”
Zach: “...”
Elon: “...”
Zach: “Well, the retail stores cost us plenty in overhead, and the staff get commission, and often the malls get a % cut of in-store sales revenue, but you should be aware that....hey where are you going? Did you just send a tweet while we were talking? what’s happening Thursday at 2pm? Elon?”

Apologies I was making a stupid joke about the jet, I have no issues with Elon using a Jet, and the fact he pays for it himself is great (I did not know that). If I could edit/delete my post I would.

 

[KarenRei]

Apologies I was making a stupid joke about the jet, I have no issues with Elon using a Jet, and the fact he pays for it himself is great (I did not know that). If I could edit/delete my post I would.

No problem, Kiwi

 

[mongo]

Frontal area is the main component of aerodynamic drag, given reasonably similar body shapes, Reduce the frontal area and small increases in aerodynamic efficiency from a longer body don't matter. Also the pollution caused during manufacture changes with the amount of materials used.

Is it?
from The Drag Equation

So A and Cd have equal impact, although Cd itself depends on A to get a value that matches the real world curve...

 

[dc_h]

Ugh, this "unforced error" of the stores closing/not closing as many all of a sudden and its effect on prices is making me consider paying more than I want to for the car. The flip-flopping looks like a poor decision from a managerial perspective, but from a sales perspective, I think it might push a lot of people that were on the fence to pull the trigger. And make a lot more get AP/FSD before price increases again.

Also, just to note, customer service is as poor as ever. I can't get my delivery advisor to respond at all, even after switching to a higher spec model that should get me the car much faster. Good thing I'm patient and already expected this.

Why don’t they just have an app? Same Tesla app for the purchase process as you use to control your car. Have a 360 communication process for purchase, delivery, control and service.

 

[gene]

I am trying to unsubscribe to Elecktrek, looking all over site to do that. Can anyone tell me how to unsubscribe?

 

[jerry33]

Is it?
from The Drag Equation
View attachment 385686

So A and Cd have equal impact, although Cd itself depends on A to get a value that matches the real world curve...

Correct. Reference area = frontal area. Drag coefficient is where the longer vehicle and shape of the vehicle come into play. Reduce the reference area and that amplifies the effect of the drag coefficient. Of course, if you compare vehicles with very different Cds the Cd can overpower the reference area difference. If the Cds are similar (meaning similar shapes), then reference area is the determining factor.

 

[jerry33]

I am trying to unsubscribe to Elecktrek, looking all over site to do that. Can anyone tell me how to unsubscribe?

I never subscribed, but most places have an unsubscribe link in the emails they send.

 

[gene]

I never subscribed, but most places have an unsubscribe link in the emails they send.

Aha, of course, the emails. Thanks Jerry.

 

[lklundin]

How the hell do you think they constructed the defence in the first place?

Elon: "OK, let's go to TMC"

To be fair, he is known for his cost saving skills.

 

[Fact Checking]

Serious q:

But is this still true for 3rd party entities? Say, if analysts inform friends, family etc. of planned, yet unannounced up-/downgrades?

Thanks.

Yeah, so bear in mind that I'm not a lawyer, etc. - my understanding is that stock analysts are still subject to the same insider trading regulations as everyone else: they must not 'tip' anyone and people who learn about their upcoming ratings changes must not trade on it, etc.

Yet all of this depends on how aggressively the rules are enforced, as committing a white collar crime is primarily a function of "risk multiplied by severity of punishment":

• If the risk of getting caught is 0.1% and the punishment is a $1m slap on the wrist and a "I won't do it again" settlement then the "cost" of committing the crime is literally around $1,000, which is a trivial business expense.
  
• How many times has the SEC started enforcement action against analysts for timing their reports to coincide with trading of either clients or the firms they are working for?
• Why is the burden of proof conveniently on the (admittedly overworked) SEC, i.e. why isn't there a clear rule for stock rating changes, which establishes an explicit trading blackout period during which the firm that employs the analyst must not trade in that security? The SEC could easily check for the illegal trades via software...
  
• Why is there not even a fig leaf of isolation between stock analysts and the firms they are employed by? Stock analysts are required to "disclose" conflicts of interest, but they are not required to avoid conflicts of interest.
• Why are conflicts of interest rules not keeping up with times - i.e. why are for example option spread trades apparently not considered a directional conflict of interest because they technically they net out to zero delta exposure to the underlying?

I.e. the reality is that many (I'd say most) Wall Street stock analysts are way too cozy with the firms they get employed by, the SEC's regulations have loopholes a truck could be traded through, and the enforcement actions related to this are close to non-existent.

If the SEC started adding more stringent controls that are self-enforcing, and slapped a few "banned from the securities industry for life" judgements on analysts who violated them then I'm sure the whole analyst scene would reform overnight and the general investing public could start relying on stock analysts a lot more...

 

[Thekiwi]

Didn’t see this posted on this thread yet.

The White House sent its budget proposal to congress and I saw a report that said it eliminates the EV tax credit completely.

While that isn’t ideal, would others agree it is the 2nd best result for Tesla? (After the ideal being the removal of the 200k cap, enabling Tesla to receive the full credit again).

At present Tesla has already lost the max $7500 credit, and will lose it all at year end, meaning other vendors in 2020 who havent reached the cap (everyone but GM) will be receiving $7500 tax rebates per vehicle while Tesla cars get zero. That isn’t an easy subsidy to combat.

However, as much as I dislike the anti-environment effect of the budget proposal, it would suddenly put all EV vendors in 2020 in the same subsidy position (zero), which would be fantastic for Tesla who has a structural competitive advantage.

Thoughts?