Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[Dan Detweiler]

Grossly off topic on this Sunday morning but...

Happy Father's Day to all you dads out there!

Dan

 

[Artful Dodger]

Not sure I follow why.
I do see Hydrogen sustaining the combustion engine with pistons and the sump oil, but not many Fossils Fuels. And we already know who has the skills and resources to make ICE relevant again.

Hydrogen is mostly produced from natural gas, thus it's production increases demand for that fossil fuel. To wit, the day that the Keystone XL project was cancelled by its developer, the local prov. gov't (which had sunk $1.5B into KXL) announced a new $1.3 hydrogen-from-CH4 project.

You can't fix stupid, but you can bankrupt it with sufficiently advanced alien technology.

Cheers!

 

[jerry33]

Not sure I follow why.
I do see Hydrogen sustaining the combustion engine with pistons and the sump oil, but not many Fossils Fuels. And we already know who has the skills and resources to make ICE relevant again.

Because you are going to need fossil fuels to create the hydrogen--and lots of them. Also they will be high maintenance vehicles because hydrogen anything requires a lot of maintenance.

 

[S3XY]

It's exactly what I did. I've got another conversation going on Nextdoor (lots of interest, very positive) and I just shared that link with the same comment. I don't know why they didn't include charging in the article, could it be still too soon bc EVs are still out of their price range? Watch, it will be a mad race when Apt owners realize they are losing occupancy without some charging spots. It's inevitable once these drop in price and used EVs get out there.

One person on Nextdoor mentioned how they should require solar with EVs to help ease the load on the grid. Not a bad idea - a package deal. They really are worried about grid stressing here (everywhere). EVs could easily be targeted on social media for the next power outage. Batteries/Solar/EVs might be rolling out together, just not evenly for every sub-station I would think. Gonna create hot spots. Can power companies figure this out you think? Any confidence there?

One word... Autobidder.

 

[S3XY]

I agree I really hope they succeed somehow - love the design. I wouldn't switch from my Tesla either but would be nice to see those on the streets

Edit: But I also want Tesla to absolutely crush all competitors for the stonks. Bit of a dilemma

There's room for both to happen.

 

[Maarten]

Because you are going to need fossil fuels to create the hydrogen--and lots of them. Also they will be high maintenance vehicles because hydrogen anything requires a lot of maintenance.

But the main difference: they can pretend to be environmentally friendly, while they are still committing nothing short of a huge climate crime with hydrogen for cars.

 

[Drezil]

Best for hydrogen: the cell that recombines it needs a wet platinum electrode.
If it gets hot during use or other factors it destroys the surface.
This also happens slightly during use.
Lifetime of a fuel cell is about the same than batteries (100%->80%). But then you can go to your dealer and "recycle" them..

 

[Dancing Lemur]

I believe Tesla is making a big error by adding the $1,000 order fee to the cost of the vehicle. Two days ago when I placed my order the order fee was $100 which I assumed must be a fee for ordering online which I thought was unusual. Today I received an e-mail changing the order fee to $1,000 so I replied asking why? I got an automatic reply stating you have reached an unmonitored e-mail address. Finally, I reached a live person who stated the order fee was actually my original $1,000 deposit for the Plaid+ and the e-mail was a correction. Furthermore, the $1,000 is deducted from the final payment due. However, after further thought, I realized that by adding the $1,000 to the cost and then deducting the $1,000 deposit from the payment due the net result is the loss of my $1,000 deposit. I could not reach my contact for an explanation and correction.

The order fee isn’t new — the MY I bought last year had a $100 order fee, as well as a $100 deposit. The fee isn’t “canceled out” by the deposit; it’s added to the total price, as you state, since it’s a “fee”. The $1200 delivery fee and the $100 order fee add $1300 to every order.

The difference is that the order fee on that Plaid agreement from SarahsDad is $1000 instead of $100, so that adds $2200 to every order. Nice for investors maybe, but it looks pretty shady for Tesla. Is the ordering process really 10 times harder for Plaid?

So yes, it appears that you are being charged $1000 to place an order (although the deposit currently is $100).

You should at least be given a straight answer by your rep; your description of the first response you got reminded me of someone pulling a short change scam.

 

[S3XY]

I had hoped they would have called the refreshed S&X Palladium with the addition of a Plaid mode like Ludicrous. What comes after Plaid? Plaid+? Always thought they could do better than "+". Maybe consult with Mel Brooks.

Paisley?

 

[Dancing Lemur]

(Grossly OT, except to say hydrogen is not a competition to battery powered cars even when hydrogen can be produced using home solar)

Well, there is at least one consumer, Bob, that uses New Mexico solar power to break water into hydrogen and oxygen and captures a tank of hydrogen stored as lithium-6 hydroid over 8 hours. It takes 4 tanks to take his prototype Corvette close to 400 miles. More detail in the YouTube video description. Bob Lazar did say storing hydrogen inside the car is dangerous and his car is just an experiment, and explained why he does not see widespread use of lithium 6.

The channel has many other interesting videos on vehicular use of hydrogen.

If you think you recognize the name Bob Lazar (the car owner in that vid), he’s the reason we “know” about Area 51.

Jeremy Corbell did a pretty good doc on him that’s available to rent on YT (I find Jeremy rather insufferable, so no link). Corbell is at the center of this recent UAP disclosure movement, and with the DoD report to Congress due next week, it’s timely, if not especially Tesla-relevant.

I’m sure most of y’all here have been at least loosely following that, but if not, there’s your Father‘s Day rabbit hole. Please don’t respond here, though.

The aliens are here, and the specs on their vehicles blow Plaid away. We need that “cube-within-a-sphere” drive unit for the Roadster.

 

[2daMoon]

The latest from Best In Tesla to fill idle time over the weekend. A Teslap, and a fun comparison between Tesla vehicles and Hasselhoff's KITT.

 

[elasalle]

NSW to abolish stamp duty on electric cars

But EV drivers will be hit with a road-user tax within six years to help fund road and infrastructure spending.

www.smh.com.au

The NSW government will abolish stamp duty on electric vehicles and offer drivers thousands of dollars in other incentives to increase uptake as part of an ambitious $500 million plan for battery-powered cars to constitute more than half of all new car sales by 2031


The $500 million plan to be unveiled in this week’s state budget is five times larger than the one recently announced by Victoria and will include significant spending on charging infrastructure across the state’s highways.

 

[st_lopes]

The order fee isn’t new — the MY I bought last year had a $100 order fee, as well as a $100 deposit. The fee isn’t “canceled out” by the deposit; it’s added to the total price, as you state, since it’s a “fee”. The $1200 delivery fee and the $100 order fee add $1300 to every order.

The difference is that the order fee on that Plaid agreement from SarahsDad is $1000 instead of $100, so that adds $2200 to every order. Nice for investors maybe, but it looks pretty shady for Tesla. Is the ordering process really 10 times harder for Plaid?

So yes, it appears that you are being charged $1000 to place an order (although the deposit currently is $100).

You should at least be given a straight answer by your rep; your description of the first response you got reminded me of someone pulling a short change scam.

Not sure what you guys are going on about. Deposits are deposits, fees are fees, and every vehicle purchase (on all OEMs) has a “delivery and final inspection fee”.

My MY had no order fee, but it did have a $2,500 deposit. The final delivery fee was $1,280 and was very clearly stated in the original purchase agreement and price quote. The final invoice also clearly showed the deposit deducted from total price.

 

[nativewolf]

It is estimated that as much as 95% of the hydrogen currently produced in the US is derived from Natural Gas. The Natural Gas industry knows it is now sitting on larger stranded assetS than the coal industry when the Levelized Cost of Energy is considered, so any and every new market is needed to prop them up.

I am now beginning to wonder if we are about to see a new line of oil-based construction products designed to replaced unnecessarily over-priced wood-based construction materials........i.e. a planned phase in of a new market for oil by escalating wood prices. Much of the new building trim materials are already plastic based. Today I bought a new shovel, a new rake, and a new tile spade for less than a single sheet of OSB. Nobody saw that coming a couple years ago, and nobody cutting or hauling trees in Idaho is making much more money than they were a couple years ago either. I built our Gothic barn when OSB was $8 a sheet. Now it is $80/sheet. Planned obsolescence?

As a forest manager....shush. Seriously though lumber is crashing, much to do about nothing, just some short term commodity squeeze by sawmills. Didn't help landowners or loggers.

 

[Prunesquallor]

…

I am now beginning to wonder if we are about to see a new line of oil-based construction products designed to replaced unnecessarily over-priced wood-based construction materials........i.e. a planned phase in of a new market for oil by escalating wood prices. Much of the new building trim materials are already plastic based. …

So, not really a Chem E, but does plastic manufacture result in unacceptable CO2 release? In other words, is this a lot better use of oil than burning it?

 

[jw934]

I follow Louis Rossmann on YouTube. He is the owner of a small NYC Apple repair shop and a vocal advocate of Right-to-repair. He recently posted a video describing how auto OEMS recently pooled $25M to make two TV ads to persuade voters not to support the Massachusetts ballot question on automobile right to repair for over-the-air auto diagnostics.

First TV ad, starts at the 15 minute mark of the YouTube, shows a young woman walking alone in an multi story parking in the night with a stalker trailing. The audio is saying third party auto repair shops with access to EV car data will be able to know your daily routines.

Second ad’s message is saying 3rd party repair shops with access to EV car data would know where you live and some could use that info for home invasion.

Although other companies used fear tactics to scare consumers from using 3rd party repair shop, they usually use potential financial loss as the reason when dealing with laptop and cellphone repairs. These ads are using fear of personal safety to drive their message.

Louis also showed the list of the 5 OEMS that contributed millions each, and pointed out that although Tesla makes it hard for 3rd party auto repair, including self repair, to get parts and info, Tesla did not contribute to this awful fear mongering campaign against right-to-repair.

Louis did end up buying a Model 3. But unfortunately the one he got was in a most sorry state at delivery due to interior assembly fittings. He also speculated the person Tesla delivery person who installed his licence plate left the crumbs in the cup holder. That is in a different video.

In his main channel, Louis has 1.58 million subscribers and I have followed him for years. I wish Tesla had done a better job on his car in the first place. Just glad the “faults” were all minor and I know a quick service call would fix all the issues he pointed out in minutes.

 

[Dancing Lemur]

Not sure what you guys are going on about. Deposits are deposits, fees are fees, and every vehicle purchase (on all OEMs) has a “delivery and final inspection fee”.

My MY had no order fee, but it did have a $2,500 deposit. The final delivery fee was $1,280 and was very clearly stated in the original purchase agreement and price quote. The final invoice also clearly showed the deposit deducted from total price.

Right, that’s exactly the point, so I guess you didn’t read very carefully. The order fee has increased by $900. It was an additional $100 on the final purchase, now it’s $1000. It’s clearly stated; it’s just 10x more than it was for MS, or currently is for M3 or MY.

The deposit doesn’t enter into it. This is just about the final purchase price.

Here‘s the MVOA from my MY:

And the one referenced above from SarahsDad:

If you still can’t do the math, I’m afraid I can’t help you further.

 

[Paracelsus]

So, not really a Chem E, but does plastic manufacture result in unacceptable CO2 release? In other words, is this a lot better use of oil than burning it?

My thoughts too. Although I don’t know how they will make the products to include sufficient fire retardants and how that combination will create a healthy environment for occupants (admittedly the use of some additives/glues in wood products quit being healthy long ago - as well as drywall- which uses a large amount of coal fly ash in its manufacturing process.......and much of it comes from China - so we get to use their coal plant byproducts while the world breathes their exhaust - and ours, and Germany’s, and Australia’s, etc).

i was sincerely excited about the yuuuge potential for natural ‘concrete’ construction block byproducts from Boring Company remnants - if done properly it will be just another significant environmental improvement providing healthier living conditions as a ‘one more thing’ from Tesla, and I am hopeful it can scale quickly

 

[JRP3]

I prefer mastodon. Nicer people and depending on the instance way longer toots that also suit discussions..

I mostly use twitter for Tesla news and Elon tweets.

 

[lafrisbee]

Not sure what you guys are going on about. Deposits are deposits, fees are fees, and every vehicle purchase (on all OEMs) has a “delivery and final inspection fee”.

My MY had no order fee, but it did have a $2,500 deposit. The final delivery fee was $1,280 and was very clearly stated in the original purchase agreement and price quote. The final invoice also clearly showed the deposit deducted from total price.

From a seat in the bleachers. Probably too many people placed an order for the plaid with no real thought of how they were going to purchase it because it was "just a hunred dollahs."
Tesla is trying to eliminate that noise by upping it to $1000 "fee." As a fee is not refundable.