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So? This isn’t about those 11 analysts. This is about you and your analysis. You’re here defending your analysis, they aren’t.

To be clear, I don’t care what you estimate anymore than the guy down the street. But I’m still going to point out the flaws in your approach because there are people here who take you at your word and estimates, and invest/trade according to your data. You have a level of responsibility, as do they.

To be clear, how accurate do you expect any estimator (Troy, Maurer, TheAccountant, anybody) to be? What is the standard of adequateness or acceptable correctness?

(I ask because I would have thought 2% was pretty good. I’m not sure what we’re asking for.)
 
Believe that's Teslas problem and not Troy's. Tesla wants to have a razer thin margin on profitability that's their choice. Their operating margins are more than enough to switch it up if they wanted to.
Don’t change the subject.

I get you don’t understand how being wrong the same percentage makes a difference as the company grows.

Ultimately, Troy has a level of responsibility, especially since he charges people money for a service. The same responsibility Tesla or any business of any size has for its customers. And as with all businesses there will be critics of the products and services. Troy is not immune to that.
 
So? This isn’t about those 11 analysts. This is about you and your analysis. You’re here defending your analysis, they aren’t.

To be clear, I don’t care what you estimate anymore than the guy down the street. But I’m still going to point out the flaws in your approach because there are people here who take you at your word and estimates, and invest/trade according to your data. You have a level of responsibility, as do they.
There is just too much noise out there with all these analysts, macros up, down, all around, and doom and gloom market crash prophets. That’s why I keep my life simple: I buy TSLA. I hold TSLA. 👌🏻
 
Don’t change the subject.

I get you don’t understand how being wrong the same percentage makes a difference as the company grows.

Ultimately, Troy has a level of responsibility, especially since he charges people money for a service. The same responsibility Tesla or any business of any size has for its customers. And as with all businesses there will be critics of the products and services. Troy is not immune to that.
Troy is pretty open to his methodology and his error rates. It's up to his paying or non paying customers to decide if there's any value to them. You don't find any value? Move along then. If people are using Troy's data to trade than it means there's credibility because I dont see too many people using Gordon Johnsons nonsense to trade stocks and that guy is on cnbs weekly.
 
To be clear, how accurate do you expect any estimator (Troy, Maurer, TheAccountant, anybody) to be? What is the standard of adequateness or acceptable correctness?

(I ask because I would have thought 2% was pretty good. I’m not sure what we’re asking for.)
I have zero expectations of any and all, but myself.

Everyone gets to decide for themselves what is a tolerable level of inaccuracy. Presumably if you’re paying for it, your expectations would be higher.
 
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Troy is pretty open to his methodology and his error rates. It's up to his paying or non paying customers to decide if there's any value to them. You don't find any value? Move along then. If people are using Troy's data to trade than it means there's credibility because I dont see too many people using Gordon Johnsons nonsense to trade stocks and that guy is on cnbs weekly.
I’ve said nothing differently. You’re arguing with the wrong person.
 
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Off-topic, but the market is closed on Saturday, and SpaceX is headed by Tesla CEO Musk.

The SpaceX three-day orbital mission with only four space tourists (non-professional astronauts) is de-orbiting for splash-down off the coast of Florida at 7:06 pm EDT.


as long as folks are getting a taste of the future that is here now, Inspiration 4,
perhaps a taste of the near future to whet your appetite even more….
(erik wernquist is very tasty)


O’Neill colonies

 
To be clear, how accurate do you expect any estimator (Troy, Maurer, TheAccountant, anybody) to be? What is the standard of adequateness or acceptable correctness?

(I ask because I would have thought 2% was pretty good. I’m not sure what we’re asking for.)

Since we're on the topic of estimates, I actually don't like the percentage of total deliveries to determine accuracy. IMO, the difference in p/d compared to the previous quarter, and the percentage you're off based on that is much more important. If you're consistently within +/- 2% on that number, that is absolutely amazing, and I will be more than willing to pay for that analysis.
 
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To be clear, how accurate do you expect any estimator (Troy, Maurer, TheAccountant, anybody) to be? What is the standard of adequateness or acceptable correctness?

(I ask because I would have thought 2% was pretty good. I’m not sure what we’re asking for.)

The absolute delivery numbers have very little meaning from an investment perspective because the share price at any given time is a distillation of the public information the numbers are derived from. In other words, the information and assumptions that go into making an accurate estimate are far more important than the numbers themselves and that information is already public and neither that info nor those assumptions can be derived from the delivery numbers, at least not with enough accuracy to be very meaningful. It's likely that the final estimate, even when very close to the actual numbers, is the result of assumptions that contain larger errors than the final estimate itself (errors in various assumptions tend to cancel out each other and revert to the mean). Delivery numbers dilute the value of the really important underlying information. The exercise of coming up with the estimate is more useful than the estimate itself and the accuracy of the estimate is not a very good indicator of the accuracy of the more important underlying individual assumptions.

As an investor, I've never understood the focus on delivery estimates in this early stage of Tesla's growth. A much more useful metric would be a rolling production capacity index. Of course this game is not as fun because there is never final confirmation of that number. An even more useful metric would be an estimation of production efficiency and how it changes over time. But the real reason quarterly delivery numbers are not that useful from a perspective of timing investments is that the market already has all the information that goes into estimating deliveries and that information is more important the delivery numbers themselves.

Delivery estimates would be a useful tool if the products were demand constrained because then those numbers would represent the trend of buyer sentiment. But Tesla has never really been demand constrained so chasing delivery numbers provides very little useful information considering the market has already taken into account most of what those numbers are derived from. First principles thinking wants to focus directly on the underlying metrics like production capacity and efficiency.
 
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However, it would appear that Troy is expecting a 15k inventory build or a reduction in Production levels at Fremont.

Here are my production estimates for Q3 2021. 50K Fremont Model 3 and 48.5K Model Y are based on the latest VIN data. 11.1K Model S is based on DMV data. China Model 3/Y are based on the daily production rates and how they change over time. I included 2020 to provide context so people can see that Fremont production was never higher than 112,721 in Q4 2020 and it was once 107K and once 108K so there is some consistency to total Model S/X/3/Y production at Fremont. Historical data for past years is available in a Google Sheet here.

Tesla releases quarterly global production numbers and we have China production numbers. So, Fremont Model 3+Y can be calculated by subtracting Shanghai numbers from global numbers. Then I use VIN data and DMV data to split Fremont Model 3+Y total into Model 3 and Model Y production numbers.

I'm calculating 7,500 higher Model 3 production at Fremont than deliveries plus exports. The Model 3 production number is higher in Q3 because Fremont stopped exporting Model 3 to Europe which was 18,662 units in Q2 2021. It's zero in Q3 2021. However, it's not as high in my calculation as in yours because I expect Model S/X/3/Y total to be more stable. So, I'm not keeping Model 3/Y stable and adding Model S on top of that.

So, there is some Model 3 excess. Some people might say, it can't be. OK, then check out the shipping data here. There are two ships from Fremont to APAC in September.

Shanghai exported 5,017 units in June to APAC. All of that was delivered in Q3. Plus there will be some (3K I think) inventory drawdown in China.

AhD9u8K.png
 
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“I don’t like what you do.” // “You’re wrong.”

If you are going to post something like the above, you may post it once and once ONLY.

If I or any other Moderator sees any further violations to the above Treatise on Comity, you will be invited to depart, regardless of how long you may have been posting here.
 
Hey @Troy I think you are great and I've had so much fun and profit from reading your posts throughout. I don't care that you are off on your predictions, because I know from your character (reading your words) that you are sincere, open and honest. All things I respect. Thank you for participating in this forum and social media.
 
Troy is pretty open to his methodology and his error rates. It's up to his paying or non paying customers to decide if there's any value to them. You don't find any value? Move along then. If people are using Troy's data to trade than it means there's credibility because I dont see too many people using Gordon Johnsons nonsense to trade stocks and that guy is on cnbs weekly.
I heard of this Michael guy...
 
The absolute delivery numbers have very little meaning from an investment perspective because the share price at any given time is a distillation of the public information the numbers are derived from. In other words, the information and assumptions that go into making an accurate estimate are far more important than the numbers themselves and that information is already public and neither that info nor those assumptions can be derived from the delivery numbers, at least not with enough accuracy to be very meaningful. It's likely that the final estimate, even when very close to the actual numbers, is the result of assumptions that contain larger errors than the final estimate itself (errors in various assumptions tend to cancel out each other and revert to the mean). Delivery numbers dilute the value of the really important underlying information. The exercise of coming up with the estimate is more useful than the estimate itself and the accuracy of the estimate is not a very good indicator of the accuracy of the more important underlying individual assumptions.

As an investor, I've never understood the focus on delivery estimates in this early stage of Tesla's growth. A much more useful metric would be a rolling production capacity index. Of course this game is not as fun because there is never final confirmation of that number. An even more useful metric would be an estimation of production efficiency and how it changes over time. But the real reason quarterly delivery numbers are not that useful from a perspective of timing investments is that the market already has all the information that goes into estimating deliveries and that information is more important the delivery numbers themselves.

Delivery estimates would be a useful tool if the products were demand constrained because then those numbers would represent the trend of buyer sentiment. But Tesla has never really been demand constrained so chasing delivery numbers provides very little useful information considering the market has already taken into account most of what those numbers are derived from. First principles thinking wants to focus directly on the underlying metrics like production capacity and efficiency.
Deliveries is currently the best tool we have to estimate production. Tesla is very good at not over producing cars even if deliveries or demand falls. This was pretty evident q1 2019 in which their deliveries fell but so did their production by a substantial amount. This ensure they are not too cash flow negative for the quarter.
 
All I worry about is: Do they have a plan and are they carrying it out. Everything else is mainly noise.
Couldn't agree more with this statement and yet the talking heads and markets consider +/- 100 cars per quarter to be a significant matter 🤷‍♂️

But guess what - knowledge is power, use it wisely...
 
I wonder which angle the haters are going to use to criticize Elon for donating $50M to St Jude…

Here's a golden one:

"he is the 2nd richest person in the world that just had a paid rocket ride as a huge advertisement. Him giving $50 mm is like the average American donating $250"

How many people have donated $250 to St. Jude or ANYWHERE ever.

Now lets see who should be ashamed.