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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

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This is all about the FED of course. Do not think Elon has a hand today.

This FED has not been one to surprise the markets. Do not know why it would start now as this would be extremely counterproductive. They have announced the acceleration of the taper program. The market is pricing in at least two and possibly three rate increases for next year. Uncertainty abounds regarding the COVID and economy. Surprising the markets here would have the main effect of telling the markets they were wrong and rudderless. Now then we would have some fireworks! Better to let inflation run hot a couple more months than do this.

BTW, no one ever discusses or only mentions in passing that all the inflation readings are presented YOY, as in December 2020 when shut downs were widespread and vaccines non existent. Wonder why the numbers would come in hot? 🤣 Forget about the pent up demand and helicopter money that has been frenziedly at work these past few months.

Speaking of this non stop inflation bogeyman, could not help but notice the overwhelming fixation on the price of oil as the main problem. OIL OIL OIL. Release the oil from the reserves! Find more oil! The 70s! Stagflation! 18% interest rates. Widows literally looking at the dollar bills in their mattress and watching them physically shrink!

Was puzzled. In 2010, oil averaged over 100 USD per barrel. Inflation adjusted pricing now is about 130 per barrel. Oil is currently yo-yo ing at around half that price now. So how is it possible that oil is a problem here at 70 per barrel? Why will oil destroy the economy? Seemed to be great old time in 2010 at twice the price.

Short answer I think is that is a rearguard action to purposely keep OIL in a narrow range for the benefit of fossil economy. The renewable economy is ascendant and already far cheaper in most of the world. But oil producers have not been investing for continued supply growth (to their credit I guess. They see the writing on the wall). So a real spike in prices is a possibility. But then the financial comparison with renewables would crush oil even more and perhaps finally turn the trend negative - significantly less oil used every year. If the prices in oil run away, then the possibility of stranded assets in the ground never to be monetized grows exponentially. Oil prices too cheap, and fossils lose money here and now with bankruptcy and non existence looming. Must keep oil prices in a narrow range, like Goldilocks economy. Must keep oil prices at the right price to squeeze every last discovered drop out of the ground. And so the inflation card must be played just right.

TL;DR If the FED does not surprise, we should see afternoon rally. Or at least no more diving.
 
You're probably not wrong, but I think it's a bit premature to drag the victims family through the mud. They lost a loved one, who was certainly a productive member of the Tesla team. I think some sensitivity is warranted here.
🙄 Your definition of ‘dragging the victim’s family through the mud’ needs some refining. And feel free at anytime to not make assumptions about what I’m thinking or feeling on a subject manner; just ask pointed questions and I’ll happily answer. And yes, you made a whole bunch of assumptions to arrive at all your conclusions.
 
🙄 Your definition of ‘dragging the victim’s family through the mud’ needs some refining. And feel free at anytime to not make assumptions about what I’m thinking or feeling on a subject manner; just ask pointed questions and I’ll happily answer. And yes, you made a whole bunch of assumptions to arrive at all your conclusions.
My intent wasn't to chastise. Sorry, if you took it that way. Think about a family member of the deceased reading your post- I don't think they would find your assumption re litigation either comforting or flattering. A little empathy for their grief is in order.
 
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Reactions: H Mak
Tesla is liable. There will be a lawsuit unless Tesla settles first. Lawsuits are the principal reason Tesla needs a good PR dept. So many potential jurors who believe Elon and Tesla are evil and a large award is a way to show what they think, even if they're unimpressed with a plaintiff's case.
Not sure if they are liable at all, but it's the right thing for a company to do and probably the smart thing to do. "This person was a valued member of the team and with the upmost sadness we will be there to help out the family. Blah blah."
 
From today's Telegraph

Electric car grants slashed for second time this year​

"A subsidy of £1,500 will now be available for purchases of up to £32,000, down from £2,500 in March. A grant of £3,000 had been available at the start of the year for purchases up to £50,000. The move cuts the number of cars available from 46 to just 20."

Interesting that here in the UK the grant is gradually being tapered whilst in the US it is being extended. A limit of £32,000 naturally excludes any Tesla. I don't believe it will make much of a difference to the numbers of BEVs sold, and the £zero road tax benefit still applies. Maybe Elon was right about not needing tax credits to sell electric cars. We shall see.
 
This is all about the FED of course. Do not think Elon has a hand today.

This FED has not been one to surprise the markets. Do not know why it would start now as this would be extremely counterproductive. They have announced the acceleration of the taper program. The market is pricing in at least two and possibly three rate increases for next year. Uncertainty abounds regarding the COVID and economy. Surprising the markets here would have the main effect of telling the markets they were wrong and rudderless. Now then we would have some fireworks! Better to let inflation run hot a couple more months than do this.

BTW, no one ever discusses or only mentions in passing that all the inflation readings are presented YOY, as in December 2020 when shut downs were widespread and vaccines non existent. Wonder why the numbers would come in hot? 🤣 Forget about the pent up demand and helicopter money that has been frenziedly at work these past few months.

Speaking of this non stop inflation bogeyman, could not help but notice the overwhelming fixation on the price of oil as the main problem. OIL OIL OIL. Release the oil from the reserves! Find more oil! The 70s! Stagflation! 18% interest rates. Widows literally looking at the dollar bills in their mattress and watching them physically shrink!

Was puzzled. In 2010, oil averaged over 100 USD per barrel. Inflation adjusted pricing now is about 130 per barrel. Oil is currently yo-yo ing at around half that price now. So how is it possible that oil is a problem here at 70 per barrel? Why will oil destroy the economy? Seemed to be great old time in 2010 at twice the price.

Short answer I think is that is a rearguard action to purposely keep OIL in a narrow range for the benefit of fossil economy. The renewable economy is ascendant and already far cheaper in most of the world. But oil producers have not been investing for continued supply growth (to their credit I guess. They see the writing on the wall). So a real spike in prices is a possibility. But then the financial comparison with renewables would crush oil even more and perhaps finally turn the trend negative - significantly less oil used every year. If the prices in oil run away, then the possibility of stranded assets in the ground never to be monetized grows exponentially. Oil prices too cheap, and fossils lose money here and now with bankruptcy and non existence looming. Must keep oil prices in a narrow range, like Goldilocks economy. Must keep oil prices at the right price to squeeze every last discovered drop out of the ground. And so the inflation card must be played just right.

TL;DR If the FED does not surprise, we should see afternoon rally. Or at least no more diving.

Indeed, fear of what the FOMC (Federal Open Market Committee) may say in a couple of hours seems to be driving down the market averages. It’s particularly affecting automakers including Tesla. As you note, the FOMC has to juggle demands to cap inflation while boosting the economy amid the reignition of the pandemic.

So, some traders are apparently moving to the sidelines by selling shares ahead of the FOMC announcement. Less obviously, some investors may be writing (selling) covered call options to mitigate risk. They may not realize that this forces market makers to buy the calls and sell stock shares as a hedge.

Uncertainty about what the FOMC may say appears to be pressuring the stock market. Once their opinions are expressed, that pressure may be released. We’ll see.
 
Here’s what’s more likely to happen; the victim’s family will sue Tesla since the perp doesn’t likely have much money.

You're probably not wrong, but I think it's a bit premature to drag the victims family through the mud. They lost a loved one, who was certainly a productive member of the Tesla team. I think some sensitivity is warranted here.

How about we combine two possible ideas?

We can emphasize with the family for the loss of their loved one, yet also be truthful on the probable outcome of litigation against Tesla.

Any kind of negative incident has potential to be market moving so we need to be free to discuss it in a transparent manner.
 
You misunderstood. Toyota said 3.5 million electrified vehicles in 2030, most of which are hybrid (PHEV), specifically only 1 million BEV.
Karen thinks, in 2030 nobody will buy PHEV, the market will buy pretty much BEV only, so only count the 1 million Toyota can sell, the rest of their business is junk, so that means the total market 100 million of which 1 million is Toyota sales.

Thank you, that makes more sense!
 
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Not sure if they are liable at all, but it's the right thing for a company to do and probably the smart thing to do. "This person was a valued member of the team and with the upmost sadness we will be there to help out the family. Blah blah."
I'm genuinely shocked that people think it's odd for a company to help out the family of an employee. Literally every company I've worked for does this sort of thing.
 
You misunderstood. Toyota said 3.5 million electrified vehicles in 2030, most of which are hybrid (PHEV), specifically only 1 million BEV.
Karen thinks, in 2030 nobody will buy PHEV, the market will buy pretty much BEV only, so only count the 1 million Toyota can sell, the rest of their business is junk, so that means the total market 100 million of which 1 million is Toyota sales.

Toyota, the worlds largest ICE manufacturer, is basically planning for less EVs than a company that only started delivering cars a couple weeks ago (Rivian).
 
What will be Tesla Guidance for 2022?

Tesla will provide 2022 guidance during the Q4 Earnings Call in late January. If they guide to 1.5m, the stock will pop in my opinion. If they guide to 50% growth (1.38m), then I think the stock does nothing even with Wall Street currently at 1.287m

OK, then. I hope Tesla continues to guide for 50% growth (or better) going forward! This is a great way for Tesla to refuse to play the quarterly numbers game while letting everyone know it will be more than good. It's also good that analysts will basically know what Tesla's guidance will be before they even have to say it!

Analysts should do their job and tell us what they think, not what management thinks. You don't need an analyst for that because Tesla is production constrained, not demand constrained.
 
Today is looking like the mirror image of yesterday as of 10:53. If Elon's shares were being sold today, it would likely have been evident by now. I think we see a combination of hedgie covering and FOMO slowly take us to a $968 close.

I'm guessing tomorrow is an Elon selling day and we drop back down below $940. If we can hold this range a little longer(thru next week) LEAP pricing might come down a bit and it'll make sense to rage convert shares to LEAPs & YOLOs.

Didn’t you say green by 9:15am yesterday 😂

@TheTalkingMule cementing his status as the ultimate contrarian indicator. 😆

No surprise there. This is why I went ahead and bought my Model Y already, I got tired of waiting for them and their inability to get things done.

This will help buoy Q4 sales, imho. It's one thing to delay delivery when the bill has been signed into law; are people really going to bank on Congress to get this thing done at the risk of waiting months longer for delivery and/or facing more price increases?
 
OK, then. I hope Tesla continues to guide for 50% growth (or better) going forward! This is a great way for Tesla to refuse to play the quarterly numbers game while letting everyone know it will be more than good. It's also good that analysts will basically know what Tesla's guidance will be before they even have to say it!

Analysts should do their job and tell us what they think, not what management thinks. You don't need an analyst for that because Tesla is production constrained, not demand constrained.
Tesla just had a analysts meeting/conference where they gave clear guidance 1.5 million. Even if they simply state 50% growth as they have been doing on Q4 earnings call, it doesn't negate that they've given that guidance now.

I don't think it puts them in any sort of compromising position because given how Tesla has been consistently sandbagging, I think the only way they would give that 1.5 million guidance is if they thought that was a worst case outcome.