Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[JRP3]

I don't expect them to give people access to their powertrain without proper training though.

Yet anyone can go to a salvage yard and access the same parts, only possibly damaged. I'll also point out that anyone can open up the breaker box in their house and access live 240VAC. For those who don't know AC causes muscle contraction which can make it impossible to let go while DC will push you away.

 

[MC3OZ]

100% of people care about ease of repair. If Tesla has a reputation of limiting repairs and/or that the cars are difficult and dangerous to work on that falls right into the FUD narrative about EV's in general. Again I'm surprised you're pushing that narrative.

I don't think Tesla has the bandwidth to support the handful of people that want to repair their own car, or fix salvage cars.

In turn the lack of salvage repairs, does limit the resale value of cars as far as regular insurance companies are concerned.

For now, Tesla's solution is to offer their own insurance.

From the point of view of most customers, cars are either written off or repaired, and that is the end of the matter.

I expect the prices of replacement battery packs to trend down overtime and for Tesla to become more interested in this type of maintenance.

But most of the fleet and the car battery packs are under warranty..

So the handful of cases where people want to repair their own car do get a lot of media attention, but there is no quick fix which doesn't end up meaning Tesla has to spend a lot of money to expand service, and to offer training /support/testing services for those wanting to do their own repairs.

FUD is nothing new ,and a lot of it now is focused on issues which affect a small portion of customers. It would be great if no customer ever got a bad experience. While things can never be perfect they can still be improved, But IMO, improving them is more of a marathon than a sprint.

 

[JRP3]

You have that backwards. AC cycles 60 times a second giving you a chance to let go. DC doesn't, you are just locked on.

In case of AC voltage and currents, it causes tetany (a condition marked by intermittent muscular spasms) or extended muscle contraction which leads to freeze the victim (or part(s) of the body) touching the AC voltage or current source.

AC or DC - Which One is More Dangerous And Why ?

Which is More Dangerous - AC or DC? Why AC is More Dangerous than DC? Is DC Voltage really Dangerous than AC Voltage. Which is Harmful, AC Current or DC Current.

www.electricaltechnology.org

A.C. is said to be four to five times more dangerous than D.C. For one thing, A.C. causes more severe muscular contractions.

Physics 516 & 616: Intermediate & Advanced Undergrad Labs

www.asc.ohio-state.edu

 

[Krugerrand]

The older Teslas you refer to have resistive heaters (as does mine), and indeed work well in cold climes (it is -30C now in Montreal).

While I do not doubt Tesla will eventually fix whatever the issue is with their new heat pump, the reputational damage among existing or potential owners may spread and perdure in markets with true winter weather.

It is true that no vehicle is perfect (ICE or EV), but this has been an Achille's heel for Tesla since the early days (my 2013 P85 S still has mediocre wipers in freezing rain due to insufficient heating when they rest at the bottom of the windshield, but otherwise performs well overall after service bulletins were performed for various v1.0 shortcomings).

I hope for a rapid and effective resolution for all involved.

Meh. While I’d wish for every Tesla to be perfect in a way that every person requires and wants, it just doesn’t work that way for anything in life. And while I believe that some people have real problems and they are handling themselves with reasonability and sensibility and with plenty of grace, I also know that people are generally macaroons when things don’t go their way and tend to be more dramatic than the situation requires.

I also know that everyone is free to buy something other than a Tesla if they’re being treated that poorly by Tesla and their products, and I invite them to do so and vote for or against with their pocketbook rather than being melodramatic, which is boorish at best.

And no, I’m not concerned as an investor. Just the other day I received an item from Amazon. Inside the Amazon box was my item and its empty product box. That’s right, my item was not in its original packaging but the original packaging was included. Was I concerned my item might be broken or damaged? For a hot three seconds. And then last week Amazon sent a picture of proof they’d delivered an item and they did deliver something, but it wasn’t mine. So, I drove the package a mile down the road and delivered it to the proper person and then sent Amazon an email saying the package they delivered wasn’t mine, that it belonged to so and so and I delivered it. They sorted it out two days later. And the week before that they delivered another wrong package and as I dropped that off a few doors down the driver was on his way back to swap items. And 6 months ago they dropped my package across the breezeway at my neighbor’s door. But you see, none of those periodic mistakes bothers me because the other 8,431 items have all come to my door on time and undamaged. So, you see, as long as Tesla mostly gets it right, and I believe they do, mistakes now and again are just part of the adventures of life.

 

[DragonWatch]

Forward Observing

Since buying new cars back in 1975, I have relied on Legacy service centers to maintain the car. Only one time did I venture out to a European service center ~ since then I refuse to venture far. Oh yeah, until early eighties I changed my own fossil fuel fluids ~ I have always saved doing it myself.
The only one to touch my Tesla, will be Tesla. FYI ~ my son-in-law changed out dead battery cells on his hand-me-down Prius. Just sayin’

 

[Tyler34]

You think no one ever started a fire when working on an ICE? This really isn't a line of argument you want to pursue.

Just sell the stock then. You clearly think Tesla is doomed between their service, cold weather issue, and repair woes.

 

[Krugerrand]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1480311080056508422

So, I don’t question it happened nor that it’s frustrating. But you know what I do?

First, I already have ‘extras’ in my vehicle. Like doesn’t everyone? Weren’t we all taught to have some provisions; tools, kitty litter, blanket, first aid, etc? If I didn’t, after it happened once, I’d be prepared for any future possibilities, that’s for damn sure.

And yes, I’ve driven in subzero temperatures of this kind several times in my life in ICE cars without heat. When it gets that cold, do you know how long it takes for an engine to warm up enough to warm up the antifreeze to blow hot air? A long bloody time and sometimes not before you get to your destination or not at all.

It’s like these people have never drive in cold temperatures before.

 

[Bet TSLA]

Elon recently tweeted that new firmware fixing the heat pump is going out now. That was quick!

Partly true. Elon tweeted "Firmware fix to recalibrate heat pump expansion valve is rolling out now". He does not say that it fixes "the heat pump" or any particular way in which it might help with people's problems. Nor even in what version of the firmware it's in, nor who it's being rolled out to. And, of course, since this situation has been going on for a while (at least three weeks?), it doesn't seem very quick to those who have been affected.

My guess (and it's only a guess) is that it probably mitigates the problem for some of the people who have been affected. And, as usual, Tesla won't communicate with anybody to tell them anything useful about the obvious questions they will have:
1) is my vehicle among those affected?
2) under what conditions is it safe to drive?
3) is there any way to tell if any particular problem is about to happen?
4) is there any way to fix the problem if it does happen?
5) when will this be fixed for real?
6) will it require a hardware fix?

Tesla should be communicating with every affected owner with the answers to at least these questions, even if the current answer is "we don't know yet". And I think that "every affected owner" includes all Tesla owners. An app notification or an e-mail or text message or a phone call saying you may have heard about a problem but it doesn't affect your vehicle(s) would be just fine, and cheap and simple to generate.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1482513670777102340

 

[JRP3]

Just sell the stock then. You clearly think Tesla is doomed between their service, cold weather issue, and repair woes.

I guess you should sell the stock since you seem to think the cars are too dangerous. Way to miss my point completely.

 

[JRP3]

It’s like these people have never drive in cold temperatures before.

Since he's from Canada I doubt that, but you're missing the point. He first had this issue in Jan of 2021, took it in for service, thought it was fixed, but when temps dropped again this year it kept happening after at least 2 more attempts to fix it. Plus the number of other people having the same issue. If this were one isolated event I wouldn't think much of it, but over the years I've seen similar bad service and delays that drive people away from the brand. If you and others don't think it's a problem that's fine but I have been and remain concerned about the issue. I want the company to do better.

 

[ReddyLeaf]

This issue coupled with bad service is adding to the reputation of poor quality and poor service that is already too pervasive. It's also turning some affected Tesla owners against the brand. Bad service with long wait times is unfortunately not an isolated problem with Tesla.

Unfortunately, that’s somewhat true. I just had the dreaded errors “vehicle may not restart”, “acceleration limited”, etc. 2015S70D with 75kmi, no real issues up until now. Because the service centers are 150mi, 220mi or 230mi, respectively, I’m forced into a $700 tow, no loaner, and the fend for yourself response from Tesla. Requested replacement of the MCU and 12V battery, plus whatever else is wrong, still awaiting parts and no ETA. Depending on the response, I may not upgrade to the Plaid S like I was planning to do with all my TSLA gains.

 

[EVDRVN]

So, I don’t question it happened nor that it’s frustrating. But you know what I do?

First, I already have ‘extras’ in my vehicle. Like doesn’t everyone? Weren’t we all taught to have some provisions; tools, kitty litter, blanket, first aid, etc? If I didn’t, after it happened once, I’d be prepared for any future possibilities, that’s for damn sure.

And yes, I’ve driven in subzero temperatures of this kind several times in my life in ICE cars without heat. When it gets that cold, do you know how long it takes for an engine to warm up enough to warm up the antifreeze to blow hot air? A long bloody time and sometimes not before you get to your destination or not at all.

It’s like these people have never drive in cold temperatures before.

Grab the pack wires, it warms you.

 

[MP3Mike]

Since he's from Canada I doubt that, but you're missing the point. He first had this issue in Jan of 2021, took it in for service, thought it was fixed, but when temps dropped again this year it kept happening after at least 2 more attempts to fix it.

Actually he had a different issue last year, and that issue was resolved. (And Tesla proactively replaced the problem parts on impacted vehicles, even if they didn't experience the problem.)

The issue this year has similar symptoms, but apparently a completely different cause. (And from what I have seen there are multiple different root causes this year.)

 

[ZeApelido]

Option 1: Fix all heat pumps

Option 2: Pay to move all of Saskatchewan (population: 10) to California.

​

 

[Tyler34]

I guess you should sell the stock since you seem to think the cars are too dangerous. Way to miss my point completely.

Where did I say that? I haven't said anything in this thread all day. Took too long to sift though 6 pages of you care bearing

 

[henchman24]

With all things mass manufactured, there will be some issues. How pervasive and how costly is yet to be determined… but IMO seems unlikely the heat pumps end up a significant issue. People are really quick to try to state there is a fundamental flaw right now. Could be, but we don’t know. We also don’t know why that flaw is. Maybe crappy programming, maybe a bug… maybe a whole set of heat pumps are bad. Maybe a batch of sensors are. Too many unknowns… but hey if people and the market want to chicken little this, by all means… I could use some more stock.

 

[Krugerrand]

Since he's from Canada I doubt that, but you're missing the point. He first had this issue in Jan of 2021, took it in for service, thought it was fixed, but when temps dropped again this year it kept happening after at least 2 more attempts to fix it. Plus the number of other people having the same issue. If this were one isolated event I wouldn't think much of it, but over the years I've seen similar bad service and delays that drive people away from the brand. If you and others don't think it's a problem that's fine but I have been and remain concerned about the issue. I want the company to do better.

I didn’t say it wasn’t a problem, but to claim it’s somehow unique to Tesla vehicles and thusly a fail specific to them, and somehow a rush to social media to complain etc., etc., is ridiculous.

An ICE car will literally blow arctic air after an hour of driving if the temperature is cold enough. Been there, done that with multiple ICE vehicles. And my van, a high selling vehicle with decades of ICE industry perfecting, had the worst heating and venting system in it of all time and fogged without fail while simultaneously trying to iceberg me. But do you think it would cool properly in hot weather? Haha! Um, no.

I had to buy an ICE pickup for the mountain since my CT won’t get here in time. It takes 15 minutes for that thing to heat up the cabin (and I’m not exactly living in Banff) and then the cabin goes from frostbite to Sahara temperatures in under a mile. I have to constantly micro manage the heating and venting dials because it can’t keep the temperature steady. My Model 3 heats up in seconds and then maintains the temperature exactly. I never fiddle the temperature or venting controls in the Tesla. And yes, a couple years ago I had a sensor replaced because it wasn’t heating properly.

As a Canadian this shouldn’t be new to him and he and everyone else should have whatever they need in their vehicles for such occasions. I do, however, know that several areas of Canada are getting colder than normal temperatures. I have clients in Saskatchewan for instance that said it was -35C for two weeks. That’s cold even for them and certainly for that length of time. A day or two, perhaps, but not days on end. We’re in strange times.

 

[Congo Line]

To answer your question, the ex SEC lawyer was working for Cooley but not on any SpaceX or Tesla account according to the WSJ article.

Cooley just lost a big client and now that it got into the press, might lose others. This should have been kept quiet. Cooley should not have leaked this to the press unless Cooley is looking to sue Musk for his request? That would be fun to watch.

I was able to read the entire WSJ article, and in light of the other WSJ article about Missy Cummings (which left out key details about why she had a clear conflict of interest), this one also seems like FUD. Light on details, which I'm certain are those which would provide more nuance and clarity to why Tesla made the request.

 

[Cosmacelf]

I was able to read the entire WSJ article, and in light of the other WSJ article about Missy Cummings (which left out key details about why she had a clear conflict of interest), this one also seems like FUD. Light on details, which I'm certain are those which would provide more nuance and clarity to why Tesla made the request.

It was an article that should not have been written. The only point of it was to embarrass Elon Musk and/or get back at him for having the temerity of firing Cooley as a law firm. I really do hope Cooley suffers some backlash from this.

I also found it interesting that the WSJ has not enabled comments on the article.

 

[ReddyLeaf]

I’m loving this WSJ/Heat pump FUD. Could we maybe have another fake autopilot crash? Three day weekend and short trading week before earnings is a perfect time to drop the SP. I have some free cash and several buy orders in for that $938-$958 gap filling.