FIFY. Car dealers are raising prices. Automakers are pushing back. Consumers are ordering Tesla.
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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable
- Thread starter AudubonB
- Start date
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
That's weird, dealers keep saying how we need them to protect us from the OEM's.
LoL, apparently Ford have trouble counting. They don't produce 15 million cars a year.
ZachF
Active Member
Lol
Even for smoothbrain Sullins that was a pretty stretched listen. Contradicting himself multiple times within seconds of making a point… it really just comes off as a butthurt copestream from a dying channel.
really interestingThe psychology of tribalism has functioned this way for probably as long as our species has been able to form complex thoughts. The biggest novelty is that the tribes now have more people and span across larger regions of land because of transportation and communication technology. The emotions are the same as ever.
Other comments mentioned being friendly, listening to their point of view first, and calmly offering nuggets of information that will resonate with their prior biases and give them new ways to talk about the topic to the people they hope to impress. I support this method because I used to be very argumentative and this way has worked better for me and I see most psychologists and therapists recommending this communication style.
"For most of our evolutionary history, our ancestors lived in tribes. Becoming separated from the tribe—or worse, being cast out—was a death sentence.
Understanding the truth of a situation is important, but so is remaining part of a tribe. While these two desires often work well together, they occasionally come into conflict.
In many circumstances, social connection is actually more helpful to your daily life than understanding the truth of a particular fact or idea. The Harvard psychologist Steven Pinker put it this way, 'People are embraced or condemned according to their beliefs, so one function of the mind may be to hold beliefs that bring the belief-holder the greatest number of allies, protectors, or disciples, rather than beliefs that are most likely to be true.' "
Why Facts Don’t Change Our Minds
Why don't facts change our minds? This article explains the logic of false beliefs and proposes a better system for constructive conversation.jamesclear.com
« People also repeat bad ideas when they complain about them. Before you can criticize an idea, you have to reference that idea. You end up repeating the ideas you’re hoping people will forget—but, of course, people can’t forget them because you keep talking about them. The more you repeat a bad idea, the more likely people are to believe it.
Let's call this phenomenon Clear's Law of Recurrence: The number of people who believe an idea is directly proportional to the number of times it has been repeated during the last year—even if the idea is false. »
Now, that’s the reason not to share stupid false facts of the FUD going around. And that’s exactly why MSM are spreading false narratives with click bait articles with false facts to get the most read to spread false ideas.
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75k is quite exuberant. I’m in the 60k camp. One of those times I’d love to be wrong!
The Accountant
Active Member
The way I look at it is the higher the load time, the more efficient the loading process.
Let's say it takes 1 hour of paperwork before loading begins and then 1 hour of paperwork after the cars stop loading before the ship departs.
A ship that loads in 1 day has 2 hours of administration and 22 hours of loading.
A ship that loads for 2 days has 2 hours of administration and 46 hours of loading.
So it's not linear as the load times get higher. Two days vs one day loads 2.1 x more cars (46/22=2.1).
But this is just a guess on my part.
ZachF
Active Member
Artful Dodger
"Neko no me"
Yeah, how can they show 'demand' for the F150 Lightning when they haven't even begun deliveries? Demand is measured, at a minimun, by quarterly sales (annual sales even better to account for seasonality) What Ford has is a 'preorders', which may evaporate if the product doesn't match the hype. Many other competitor's EVs have met this fate in the past 4 years
This new product is not just next year's F150 facelift (which has proven demand). Lightning may fizzle, with the curb weight of a gravel truck and the towing range of a Tonka truck.
But what Ford is REALLY hiding here is that they can't increase F150 EV production quickly because they don't have a way to increase their battery supply, and they won't for at least 3-4 years. Even then, the battery supply they are countng upon is not proven tech, and is bound to have teething problems. I hope Ford allocates lots of $$$ for warranty reserves.
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Why? Dec Production was 67k. Based on the Wu Wan videos, Shanghai was busier than in Dec. 75k could be a stretch but I at least expect 70k. But again, 5k of that could not be counted cause it's at ports.
Didn't Wu Wa say that they staggered the shut down so it was running at 50% for a period of time? Since Chinese new years was Feb 1, it may affect days prior to this.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Why would that be false? So far the market is showing it'll buy every good EV anybody makes.
Tesla continues to make a lot more than anyone else- but every other decent offering on the market appears, like Tesla, to be supply limited- not demand limited.... (embarrassingly supply limited in many cases).
Farleys problem isn't in thinking Ford could sell as many good EVs as Tesla if they made that many. They surely could. Demand for good EVs is very very high.
Farleys problem is the previous two CEOs thought investing in battery supply was a dumb idea, so now no matter how hard he wants to push into EVs (and he was only a few months into the job when he publicly recognized the previous CEOs were wrong and battery factories were vital)- he's still severely choked off on batteries for years to come because such supply doesn't ramp quickly.
After Diess, Farley seems the CEO-not-named-Elon most aware of what's actually the future of the industry, and serious about doing something about it- he just (unfortunately for Ford) came into a position to do something about it pretty late in the game.
Meanwhile, over at say Toyota, they keep finding answers to questions nobody is asking.
Toyota Patents Plans For EV With Manual Transmission And Clutch
The patent appears to show an EV that you can change gears in but you can also set it to a gearless mode too.
insideevs.com
Hmmmm I saw nothing like that. Every video from Wu Wan right up until the very end of Jan showed production and logistics running higher than I’ve ever seen.
I do recall Wu Wan saying that during the first week of Feb on his video saying, Shanghai wasn’t totally shut down and that the model 3 line was running, though at a lower rate
Either way, we’ll know more in 2 days
Thank you for stating this clearly. Keep trying to explain this. All about limited bandwidth. Every time you repeat the nonsense, a time opportunity is lost for something different to be focused on and interpreted. If you clog your bandwidth with garbage you become the garbage.
This is the very essence of Madison Avenue. They do not care if you do not believe or are not interested in what they are forcing you to hear. They figure: ‘Check back in ten years when you have heard the jingle fifteen thousand times and we will talk then’.
It is now the lifeblood of social media. Just keep recycling the same FUD and it will become the truth for some people, because it is all they know.
That's my take on Ford too, Farley does get it. Ford is hampered but so is everyone and that includes Tesla. SK innovation's factories won't really be keeping up with Ford's needs, thus Ford's new factories but then those won't be enough either. I actually think Ford as the organization is turning faster than VW.Why would that be false? So far the market is showing it'll buy every good EV anybody makes.
Tesla continues to make a lot more than anyone else- but every other decent offering on the market appears, like Tesla, to be supply limited- not demand limited.... (embarrassingly supply limited in many cases).
Farleys problem isn't in thinking Ford could sell as many good EVs as Tesla if they made that many. They surely could. Demand for good EVs is very very high.
Farleys problem is the previous two CEOs thought investing in battery supply was a dumb idea, so now no matter how hard he wants to push into EVs (and he was only a few months into the job when he publicly recognized the previous CEOs were wrong and battery factories were vital)- he's still severely choked off on batteries for years to come because such supply doesn't ramp quickly.
After Diess, Farley seems the CEO-not-named-Elon most aware of what's actually the future of the industry, and serious about doing something about it- he just (unfortunately for Ford) came into a position to do something about it pretty late in the game.
Meanwhile, over at say Toyota, they keep finding answers to questions nobody is asking.
Toyota Patents Plans For EV With Manual Transmission And Clutch
The patent appears to show an EV that you can change gears in but you can also set it to a gearless mode too.
Japan INC needs some kind of help or they expire and Japan is in deep dodo.
"It looks like Toyota wants to implement a solution that to us doesn’t seem to dissimilar to what you get when you convert an ICE vehicle to electric, but you keep the gearbox. Usually, these EV conversions are just left in a single gear (third or fourth, depending on the motor’s specification and maximum RPMs), so you don’t have to use the clutch because you don’t actually have to shift."Why would that be false? So far the market is showing it'll buy every good EV anybody makes.
Tesla continues to make a lot more than anyone else- but every other decent offering on the market appears, like Tesla, to be supply limited- not demand limited.... (embarrassingly supply limited in many cases).
Farleys problem isn't in thinking Ford could sell as many good EVs as Tesla if they made that many. They surely could. Demand for good EVs is very very high.
Farleys problem is the previous two CEOs thought investing in battery supply was a dumb idea, so now no matter how hard he wants to push into EVs (and he was only a few months into the job when he publicly recognized the previous CEOs were wrong and battery factories were vital)- he's still severely choked off on batteries for years to come because such supply doesn't ramp quickly.
After Diess, Farley seems the CEO-not-named-Elon most aware of what's actually the future of the industry, and serious about doing something about it- he just (unfortunately for Ford) came into a position to do something about it pretty late in the game.
Meanwhile, over at say Toyota, they keep finding answers to questions nobody is asking.
Toyota Patents Plans For EV With Manual Transmission And Clutch
The patent appears to show an EV that you can change gears in but you can also set it to a gearless mode too.
It’s false because Lightning is very inferior to Cybertruck, so the demand will not be as good.Why would that be false? So far the market is showing it'll buy every good EV anybody makes.
Tesla continues to make a lot more than anyone else- but every other decent offering on the market appears, like Tesla, to be supply limited- not demand limited.... (embarrassingly supply limited in many cases).
Farleys problem isn't in thinking Ford could sell as many good EVs as Tesla if they made that many. They surely could. Demand for good EVs is very very high.
Farleys problem is the previous two CEOs thought investing in battery supply was a dumb idea, so now no matter how hard he wants to push into EVs (and he was only a few months into the job when he publicly recognized the previous CEOs were wrong and battery factories were vital)- he's still severely choked off on batteries for years to come because such supply doesn't ramp quickly.
After Diess, Farley seems the CEO-not-named-Elon most aware of what's actually the future of the industry, and serious about doing something about it- he just (unfortunately for Ford) came into a position to do something about it pretty late in the game.
Meanwhile, over at say Toyota, they keep finding answers to questions nobody is asking.
Toyota Patents Plans For EV With Manual Transmission And Clutch
The patent appears to show an EV that you can change gears in but you can also set it to a gearless mode too.
And Models 3&Y are far superior to ICE vehicles in their class (sports/entry luxury sedans/CUVs respectively) while being the same price, whereas I don’t believe (but am not sure) that Lightning beats the regular F150 on features at the same price.
Plus Teslas have superchargers and the best ADAS system on the road.
So although Lightning might have more demand than production can satisfy, I’m sure it pales in comparison to Tesla’s.
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