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However, the Lexus steering yoke is drive by wire and arguably superior.
Maybe, but I thought Elons concerns about drive by wire were safety related? If Tesla did a drive by wire yoke, the usual suspects would be hollering about the yoke being unsafe because something something.
Frankly the mainstream media have long lost the 'benefit of the doubt' defense when talking about EV makers.
 
Maybe, but I thought Elons concerns about drive by wire were safety related? If Tesla did a drive by wire yoke, the usual suspects would be hollering about the yoke being unsafe because something something.
Frankly the mainstream media have long lost the 'benefit of the doubt' defense when talking about EV makers.
Good point.

“So far, the only production vehicles to feature this technology are the Infiniti Q50 sedan, launched in 2013, and the Infiniti Q60 coupe derived from it (2016). However, they cannot be considered pure steer-by-wire vehicles because they have a mechanical fallback system.May 6, 2021”

 
Lexus' New Steering Yoke Is Weird but Kinda Wonderful
Thanks, @Knightshade and @Usain, for the clarification. I 100% agree that steer-by-wire is tech that, if done correctly, is truly worthy of praise.
Sure, but that is not the point in play for a large portion of the anti-Tesla article (though limited spin range may mitigate some of it?). Note: neither author actually drove a Tesla, and both raise the question of "why?".

Tesla's new steering yoke isn't retro, it's a safety risk
Despite all that, I can't help but see Tesla's new KITT-style steering yoke as anything other than a bad idea. I fear it'll not just be awkward to use, it's potentially unsafe. Here's why
....
Ever hit a pothole and have the steering wheel slip in your hands? It's disconcerting, but so long as your wheel is round (or D-shaped at least) you can quickly regrip the wheel.

Now, imagine that happening on Tesla's new steering yoke. At least one of your hands is going to be grasping at thin air.
...
The leading edge of a spinning yoke, on the other hand, has the potential to catch your hands, legs, or even your head if it's a significant enough frontal impact.
...
Yes, perhaps a wheel like this will make a lot of sense in the future when cars can be fully trusted to drive themselves, to change lanes on their own and handle that three-point turn without any extra assistance. I'm sorry to say we're not there yet, and assuming you're buying a car that you'll not only need to drive, but actually want to drive, this shape wheel just doesn't make any sense.
...
I'm sure there are similarly creative solutions to the problems this yoke presents, but that still leaves me wondering: Exactly what problem is it fixing?
Lexus' New Steering Yoke Is Weird but Kinda Wonderful
At the end of the day, Lexus' new yoke works better than I ever expected. The company's engineers delivered a futuristic-looking steering device that offers real-world benefits and they minimized -- though didn't quite eliminate -- the system's learning curve. I'm still not sure this setup is the solution to any actual problem, but it's far better than Infiniti's maligned steer-by-wire system and should be totally livable in day-to-day driving, which is a win for Lexus.
...
Editors' note: Travel costs related to this story were covered by the manufacturer, which is common in the auto industry. The judgments and opinions of CNET's staff are our own and we do not accept paid editorial content.
Car (with 200-225 miles of range EPA) does not arrive until November, yoke some time after that....
 
Re price increases, worth noting that everything is more expensive now. The big Bluetooth boombox I bought 6 months ago has gone up by 25% since then. If we hadn't had this supply shock, Teslas would be a little cheaper right now.
And your source is ... ?

ps : what do you think the rate is ?
My source is me. :) It's really hard to quantify this I think. Some routes have me turning every half mile, others might have miles of straight roads. Which trip should be considered as more relevant?
 
Lexus' New Steering Yoke Is Weird but Kinda Wonderful

Sure, but that is not the point in play for a large portion of the anti-Tesla article (though limited spin range may mitigate some of it?). Note: neither author actually drove a Tesla, and both raise the question of "why?".

Tesla's new steering yoke isn't retro, it's a safety risk

Lexus' New Steering Yoke Is Weird but Kinda Wonderful

Car (with 200-225 miles of range EPA) does not arrive until November, yoke some time after that....
I'm speculating that the CT yoke will use FSD software to 'assist' the steering, and might be both mechanical and drive by wire, err FSD.
 
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I took this picture years ago, around 2019. That being said, University's have access to bleeding edge tech-- Stanford team won a DARPA competition about 30 years ago to autonomously pick up a disk and transport it across a tennis court, using an RC helicopter. However bringing research tech to real world use is uncommon at most if not all academic institutions. I do hope they will get a CT to replace this monstrosity.
 
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You would have a point if lowering prices would allow the technology to deploy faster to more new owners. But it won't, it would just reduce the amount of free cash-flow Tesla has to work with to continue to expand production as quickly as possible.

Even if I were not an investor, I would want to see Tesla in such strong financial shape that money was no object to whatever issues they decide to tackle. This also gives legacy auto a little more breathing room on their EV pricing which could result in more investment in batteries and EV production.

But one thing you can be sure of is that if push comes to shove, Tesla will lower prices and erode competitors car sales before they will slow down production growth to match demand and Tesla has the pricing power to do that in a big and growing manner as illustrated by their declining cost to build each car that is driven by manufacturing innovation and maximizing production from each factory. Tesla will lower prices as soon as that's necessary to continue displacing ICE vehicles in ever larger numbers. In other words, high production and the need to continually increase sales is what lowers prices and makes EV's more affordable. As long as EV's are only 4% of all cars produced and sold and buyers are joining waiting lists, there is no incentive or benefit to selling cars below market value and it will not accelerate the mission at all - if anything, it would slow it down.

One other important point about higher prices is that for some Tesla is still seen as a premium luxury brand this way. My brother-in-law wanted a Model 3 but he was waiting for his Toyota Yaris to be in need for repairs before ordering a Model 3. At first it was 54k-8k~5k incentives totaling 41k CAD and he thought it was stretching his car budget from his 24k Yaris he bought 8 years ago. Now that the price has increased, he doesn’t think it is a good financial move to buy one considering their financial situation but they never wanted a Tesla so much before. If the supply chain issues resolve over time and if the price are starting to come down, it will trigger so many new orders from people who were hesitant in the beginning and who will jump the gun when they have the occasion. The demand pool is nearly limitless for the next 10 years.
 
Lexus' New Steering Yoke Is Weird but Kinda Wonderful

Sure, but that is not the point in play for a large portion of the anti-Tesla article (though limited spin range may mitigate some of it?). Note: neither author actually drove a Tesla, and both raise the question of "why?".

Tesla's new steering yoke isn't retro, it's a safety risk

Lexus' New Steering Yoke Is Weird but Kinda Wonderful

Car (with 200-225 miles of range EPA) does not arrive until November, yoke some time after that....
So, I missed that. They were reviewing the Tesla yoke and they had never used it?
 
Good thing 100% of the people can’t afford a Tesla. The prices will skyrocket faster that a manipulated crypto! 🙄

All this discussions about Teslas being to expensive make no sense. They sell everything they make and people wait up to a year to get one. Is not like there’s any other product better out there and it will never be probably.

People that claim they won’t get a Tesla because the price went up 25% will just stretch their existing ICE a couple of years more, is not like they are that stupid to actually buy a new ICE vehicle? Or are they?

Market is almost open, let’s stick to the pertinent discussion before the mods start to clean up the useless chatter. 🙃
 
Elon reduced his TSLA exposure.

“The move comes as Musk’s margin loan was reduced to $6.25 billion from $12.5 billion announced earlier, the filing revealed.”

As predicted. Big funds and investors are lining up to own a chunk of another Elon led company.
 
So, I missed that. They were reviewing the Tesla yoke and they had never used it?
Yah, neither drove a Tesla with yoke. The anti-Tesla article author hurt his hand using a PC sim system once. The Lexus author only mentioned Tesla in passing, but with assumption
As for Tesla's trendsetting yoke, it has a physical connection to the front wheels and still requires awkward hand-over-hand movements while turning. I haven't tried Elon's setup yet, but with all the wheel cranking and the lack of a conventional rim, it seems inferior to what Lexus has developed.
As opposed to Motortrend who did (didn't like it in town for the time they had it, but at least they drove it):
2022 Tesla Model S Plaid Steering Yoke Review: So, Is It Good or a Gimmick?
The steering ratio of 14.0:1, with 2.3 turns lock to lock, is quick enough at speed to make it unnecessary to turn the wheel any greater than 90 degrees on the tightest of switchbacks. Unfortunately, around town that steering ratio just isn't quick enough, and it reminds you why no other car on the market offers a yoke.
 
It was a ridiculous comment because the OP was trumpeting the prior president who was 1) looking out for USA gas interests trying to get germany to build more port facilities for LNG and 2) continuing Obama strategy and Bush and Clinton and Reagan strategy. We've long counseled Europe not to become reliant on Russian oil. Reagan actually used oil to destroy the USSR, something the west would be well advised to review. To give any credit at all to the prior US president for anything related to EVs or European security or the fight against climate change is absurd.

As @hobbes and @FS_FRA both point out Germany did quite a lot to kickstart solar at scale but then they threw in the towel and there was little progress for years. To be honest it is really Denmark that proved out renewable -it was wind. The real issue today is that Germany under Schrader and Merkel doubled down on reliance on Russia, in hindsight it is a disastrous decision. The lack of German progress in offshore wind development and in solar and the lack of diversity in supply has clearly emboldened Putin and the oligarchy kleptocracy. Schrader continues to receive a million bucks a year in payments from Putin. Grotesque but then our own former leader got far far more. Also both Germany and France have long blocked the buildout of the massive transmission capacity increase from Spain and Portugal which should have been a no brainer for Europe. Iberian solar should flood into Europe, offshore wind too.

All of this highlights the desperate need for scale in EVs. We need to see 10 MILLON to reduce or replace a million barrels of oil/day. So, while we all cheerlead Tesla stock and Tesla as a thought and manufacturing leader, we need every EV made. VW, Fiat, Nissan, Kia, Ford, GM, etc etc. We need every single EV. Which really highlights the lag in battery production and capacity. Next year it seems that we could start really replacing oil if we could only get the 4680 production to scale. For Tesla shareholders the sky is the limit. For Germany there is a long hard look in a mirror. Who enabled Putin? Germany is enabler #2 behind Xi.
Thank you for confirming that nothing I wrote was wrong and for providing much more context in what was a throw away line, since I was really talking about Russia and Ukraine. Looks like my intensional tweak got someone (thanks again) to educate us on the finer points of Germany and EU energy policy.
 
I always wonder in situations like this, where we here at TMC know what the next three years are going to look like (awesome), why the market doesn't? The answer that always comes back is that we really do know Tesla better than most of the market...
Yes, we do know Tesla better, but not nearly more than you might think. I discovered they know Tesla pretty well too, they just lie about it because lying makes them more money by creating volatility. Sometimes they lie for so long they begin to believe their own lies.

There’s a limited amount of money to be made if a stock is always moving in lock step with the company’s broad achievements or failures - read, based on material information given out 4xs/yr on ER calls and the odd additional time in between.

However, if you can convince others and even yourself that something else is going on contrary to the evidence (false narratives - positive or negative) then voila inaccurate values applied to companies all the bloody time. And that means volatility in pricing, which means there’s more money to be made. Additionally, add in a healthy serving of the human condition and purposely stoke fear of the unknown and bam!

*They* created the PURPOSEFUL irrationality and the PURPOSEFUL inaccuracy of the market, not by ignorance but by telling tales. They run into buildings yelling fire to create panic. And the one time the theater is really on fire, rather than help put it out they stand on the other side and stoke it. Sometimes they even set themselves on fire.

Let me give you a snippet of conversation:

Them: If you transfer your account to us, this is what we’ll do - *some complicated, convoluted, oily shenanigans to diversify my holdings that nobody could unpack with a grenade* (Lie #1)

Me: We aren’t diversifying.

Them: *determined, I got this, look*. What if something happens to Elon or he walks away from Tesla. His involvement is worth a 20% premium to the stock price. (Lie #2)

Me: Oh, like the 20% you just dropped the stock after a killer Q1? (spouse gives me the *you did not just go there?, look*. I respond with the *how long have we been married? Of course I went there, look*. 🙄)

Them: *smirk, oh crap, regroup*. (Lie #3) That’s true, Tesla did have an epic earnings, but (here comes lies 4 thru 69 all while trying, but failing, to keep a straight face) there’s been some uncertainty about his Twitter deal, macro events like the ongoing Ukrainian war, other macro events related to the pandemic, possible Fed interest rate hikes, blah, blah, blah…

Me: We aren’t diversifying one single share.

The whole thing is an endless, ribbon donned, tail-chasing dog with them constantly tying new pieces of evermore colorful ribbons to keep it going.

I was never able to determine if GJ and his ilk were just that stupid or if everything was an elaborate charade. I know now it’s the latter. Where they run into personal disaster is when they forget it’s all a lie and begin to believe it.
 
Yah, neither drove a Tesla with yoke. The anti-Tesla article author hurt his hand using a PC sim system once. The Lexus author only mentioned Tesla in passing, but with assumption

As opposed to Motortrend who did (didn't like it in town for the time they had it, but at least they drove it):
2022 Tesla Model S Plaid Steering Yoke Review: So, Is It Good or a Gimmick?
Yoke was fine on the 'ring...
 

From your link said:
With no physical mechanical connection to the front wheels, Lexus' yoke eliminates wheel winding and hand-over-hand movements in tight, low-speed turns

The specifically call out why the Lexus one has a functional benefit right near the top.

And contrasts it later to the Tesla one

Your link said:
As for Tesla's trendsetting yoke, it has a physical connection to the front wheels and still requires awkward hand-over-hand movements while turning.

Which is something nearly every review of the Tesla yoke has mentioned.


There's a significant functional difference between the two systems-- one most obvious in exactly those kind of low speed hand/over/hand turns- and they specifically call that out.

Likewise they call out the downside of steer by wire-

Your link said:
there's basically zero road feel

The typical Lexus driver of this car is unlikely to care about that- so this trade off would be worthwhile to them.

Someone planning to track their Plaid often might care about this though and be unwilling to make that trade-off.


Infiniti somewhat famously used steer by wire on their sport sedan and it was panned for exactly that reason- the lack of feel in a "drivers car"

Perhaps the reason Elon said it'd be years before they had progressive steering is he's still working on a way to NOT have to pick one or the other.



Again- there's lots of bias in the media.

This ain't that.
 
It was a ridiculous comment because the OP was trumpeting the prior president who was 1) looking out for USA gas interests trying to get germany to build more port facilities for LNG and 2) continuing Obama strategy and Bush and Clinton and Reagan strategy. We've long counseled Europe not to become reliant on Russian oil. Reagan actually used oil to destroy the USSR, something the west would be well advised to review. To give any credit at all to the prior US president for anything related to EVs or European security or the fight against climate change is absurd.

As @hobbes and @FS_FRA both point out Germany did quite a lot to kickstart solar at scale but then they threw in the towel and there was little progress for years. To be honest it is really Denmark that proved out renewable -it was wind. The real issue today is that Germany under Schrader and Merkel doubled down on reliance on Russia, in hindsight it is a disastrous decision. The lack of German progress in offshore wind development and in solar and the lack of diversity in supply has clearly emboldened Putin and the oligarchy kleptocracy. Schrader continues to receive a million bucks a year in payments from Putin. Grotesque but then our own former leader got far far more. Also both Germany and France have long blocked the buildout of the massive transmission capacity increase from Spain and Portugal which should have been a no brainer for Europe. Iberian solar should flood into Europe, offshore wind too.

All of this highlights the desperate need for scale in EVs. We need to see 10 MILLON to reduce or replace a million barrels of oil/day. So, while we all cheerlead Tesla stock and Tesla as a thought and manufacturing leader, we need every EV made. VW, Fiat, Nissan, Kia, Ford, GM, etc etc. We need every single EV. Which really highlights the lag in battery production and capacity. Next year it seems that we could start really replacing oil if we could only get the 4680 production to scale. For Tesla shareholders the sky is the limit. For Germany there is a long hard look in a mirror. Who enabled Putin? Germany is enabler #2 behind Xi.
It was Thatcher-Reagan-Kohl who decided to go down the Russian oil & gas route in the beginning, subsequent leaders have simply continued on the course set long ago. This was all part of the grand-bargain associated with German reunification, and the breakup of the USSR with glasnost/perestroika. Arguably it has worked pretty well, for about 40-years. The real issue has been that the West has not properly responded to Putin's decisive course change (away from the West) in the early 00s. My point is that we should not unreasonably criticise all of the current crop of politicians without knowing the long history.

(Some individuals have behaved badly, most obviously Schroder in the current German context, but one could also find fault with others including in the UK, USA, and many other countries that have not dealt well over this strategy over the decades).

Anyway, whilst I am well aware of the French having long been a blocker of Spain's infrastructure connectivity (road, rail, gas pipeline, oil pipeline, electrical grid) I am not aware of any German role in that de facto strategy of impeding Spanish market access northwards. What evidence do you have to support that assertion as it is interesting. (I used to live smack in the middle of the Pyrenees, so I am very aware of what should have been done long ago, but the French always found convenient to never actually do). I'm really not aware of a German role in this, hence my question.
 
This should help with visualizing how Germany is "independent" from Russsian oil/gas imports:

largest importers from russia.jpg


 
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