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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

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I see you're trying to restrict the time frame to the last 24 hours. Why is that? The irrationality exists when people only talk about the positives about Tesla and Elon and ignore the negatives and in the process throw critical thinking out the window. Too often I see posters here touting "first principles" but then positive opinions based on non-first principle thinking, such as reasoning by historical pattern. For example, saying that the stock price behaved a certain way in the past so maybe it will do it again in the future. And you haven't answered my question about why you feel the need to be condescending. Imagine if everyone who has a different opinion from yours simply told you to leave the forum because they don't like your posts.
Ok. Pick any irrationally positive post that’s currently relevant.

It’s not irrational for a person to choose to only talk about the positives of Tesla and Elon, particularly on a Tesla fan site. You might want to pull out a Webster’s.

I’ve answered your question in a previous post, which also addressed your last sentence.
 
Ok. Pick any irrationally positive post that’s currently relevant.

It’s not irrational for a person to choose to only talk about the positives of Tesla and Elon, particularly on a Tesla fan site. You might want to pull out a Webster’s.

I’ve answered your question in a previous post, which also addressed your last sentence.
More condescension. This is quite revealing.
 
Gato controlled a robot hand to perform tabs in the real world. I would call that a 3D task.

Elon says they are leading in real world AI, but I cannot say for sure that doing the extremely difficult task of driving a car and the method you use for that are necessarily general purpose to all other domains that it would need to be for general AI. And for sure he has not shown that to be true yet either. Maybe they have some internal proof of this and that would be great if true.
The Optimus bot may be a good place to look for answers to the question of Tesla’s prowess in artificial general intelligence.

This project was introduced pretty close to the time Elon concluded that FSD requires AGI and that Tesla has made big advances in it.

Also, even though over 100,000 people are using the FSD beta, its ability may be underappreciated by most.
It could be presently on the flattish part of a strong S curve toward level five.
 
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Share price is not my main focus but does show the confidence investors have in Tesla. And I want Tesla and the US auto industry to be successful. But Elon Musk getting into political grudge matches between the two parties is also off the mark as he just alienates half of the people needlessly. Partisan politics and social media is the worst thing that has happened to the United States and I am sad to see Elon Musk fall into this trap. I think companies like Tesla need to appeal to the greater good of a greener energy future above politics so you can get buy in from the the over whelming proportion of Americans. We need the majority of Americans (left and right) to want to have a cleaner sustainable future. We will not put a dent into global warming without buy in and support from all sectors of society. Everyone sees weather patterns are growing more dire every year so we do not have alot of time left.
My personal belief is that the technology for solving climate change and renewable energy is largely here now. It needs to scale and develop a little.

The opportunity for Tesla is enormous, implications for $TSLA as well.

There's a gravy train of people on every subject, be it fossil fuels, hydrogen, clean energy. A subset of clean energy advocates are focused on grants and funding for future technology, even a little doom-mongering. Others on action. Some have been co-opted by enemies or turned by bruised egos.

Fossil fuels and hydrogen (much the same actors as fossil fuels) are using aggressive tobacco-era techniques, money, lobbyists, media, culture-wars, FUD (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt) and corruption.

Recent political changes in Australia show that the barriers to going green/energy independence/"strong national energy defence" seemed impenetrable, but reasoning by analogy - crack the eggshell and you're in. That might be by appealing to people on climate grounds (appeals to me), personal/district/region/national/European/continental energy independence and resilience (appeals to me too) or as a way for my country/continent to defend itself against potential enemies (also appeals to me).

With so many people and organisations being disrupted, many quite unscrupulous, there's a need to get info to people - to cut across silos, pierce echo-chambers.

Also, there is a need to send a message to bullies. Make sure that the path of least resistance isn't to go after Tesla or Tesla management. That is particularly true of politicians who are rarely conviction politicians and will bend whichever way the wind blows, whether public opinion, money (mostly money, but power is attractive too - remember politics is showbusiness for ugly people). There's also fairness, and I believe Elon's tweets on the Litigation Department will mostly be adhered to - don't fight / fight depending on whether it is RIGHT to fight, not on likelihood of winning.

Disintermediate the information gatekeepers, add a little fear and distrust into what I believe to be corrupt criminal networks of disinformation and policy/laws (Fossils>PR>lobbyists>politicians & journalists) and generally shake up the landscape.

That will also (in my opinion) reduce the power and limit the scope of media, politicians, PR and their funders to make fools of us through clickbate, riling up base, ratcheting up the them/us hate of tribalism in civil discourse. Everyone thinks they're moderate* - perhaps more people would be moderate and more civil without being agitated for someone else's purpose. The world would be a better place.

* I'm not. I'm a very naughty boy. I'm looking on the bright side of life...
 
Ok. Pick any irrationally positive post that’s currently relevant.

It’s not irrational for a person to choose to only talk about the positives of Tesla and Elon, particularly on a Tesla fan site. You might want to pull out a Webster’s.

I’ve answered your question in a previous post, which also addressed your last sentence.

I would state these posts are irrational and condescending:

“If investors here really wanted to know how the recent harassment settlement might affect Elon’s image and thus maybe a segment of Tesla’s market then they would have pointedly asked the female investors here for their thoughts and insight on the news.“

“If investors here really wanted to know how Elon proclaiming he’d vote Republican the next time would affect his image and thus maybe a segment of Tesla’s market then they would have pointedly asked Democratic investors here and Republican investors here for their insight on the news.“

To think that only female investors can answer the question of what sexual harassment is, is condescending!

No, you use common sense. Any level head person can read a piece about what could possibly be considered sexual harrassment and know if it is or not. If someone supposedly/allegedly exposes themselves without being asked to do so, that is sexual harassment. If what you meant to say is, most men are p-gs and can’t stop themselves, nor answer that question, then that is condescending. it is called having common sense and good morals/character.

The same for asking democratic or republican investors about how Elon would vote. Both parties have their faults, but if you think that Elon did not say what he said to get a rise out of the democratic side, We all have our heads in the sand. I don’t want to get political, (but unfortunately, I am since most are afraid to say when a spade is a spade) but just listen to what is being stated continually by the republicans. It is still commonplace that many republicans think that Biden lost the election and it was stolen, also common to know many republicans do not think anything bad happened on January 6th. In fact, those same people think they are patriots...so, yes, Elon tried to get a rise from the democrats with that statement.

rant over.
 
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Subject: Black car in the top-left of this frame, making a left turn loop (time index 1:57)

View attachment 807732

This is the max resolution from the src video. Both the lone black car and the group of Models 3/Y (?) on the right border of this image) are 42 pixels wide. The res. isn't good enough to identify any differences in the body other than saying their lengths are the same. Headlines look similar too, but angle of view is slightly different.

You also need to take the drone's position into account, it is closer to the black mystery car than it is to that group of M3's and MY's on the right border. So if they all measure 42 pixels across, AND the black car is closer to the drone's line of sight, then the black car could actually be a tad shorter than the others.
 
It’s not irrational for a person to choose to only talk about the positives of Tesla and Elon, particularly on a Tesla fan site.
On the site in general, sure. But in the investors thread?
Investors should never, ever, consider themselves 'fans'. I'm sure kodak had a lot of investors who were fans. I'm absolutely obsessed with tesla and LOVE my car! and am definitely a fan most of the time, but as in investor, I try to wear a different hat. Constructive criticism of the company is valuable.

Elon admits he makes mistakes (overengineering the model X, over-automating during early model 3 ramp up etc). He probably knows he makes mistakes with tweets too. Its fair for us to spot those mistakes and criticize bad choices.
 
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I agree that rationality and logic should be the standard. If rationality is your standard, however, where is your criticism of the irrational positive posts on this forum of which there are many?
They don’t lead to the long back and forth discussions. Pages of negative rambling about how removing the mobile charger will cause so many problems is a prime example of negative irrationality that wastes everybody’s time. If you can site a similar rambling positive irrational discussion, then I agree you have a good point. Maybe I just don’t remember them. Do you see such examples?
 

Tesla’s daily output will return to 2,600 on Tuesday, according to the memo, which was seen by Reuters. The document said there were around 1,000 electric units produced on Monday, and the weekly output would move closer to 16,000 cars every seven days
 
I'm not one to say things like "I hope the stock goes down to X so I can buy more", but the latest sideshows are effectively doing this. Obviously Elon's actions, pros and cons are always front and center for us. As we have seen happen in the past, when this happens the company keeps moving along and many investors are unable to see the forest for the trees.

Anecdote: I was packing up the Y with my GF on Friday to head to the lake and a neighbor walked by. He mentioned that he had seen my car but had thought it was gray (he was thinking of my model 3). He really likes Teslas but thinks he needs them to make a minivan first. "I've heard they are really fast too".

Similar situation in small town MO while I was attending our local club happy hour. Couple of guys outside having beers that you would not assume would be Tesla fans talked to us for several minutes about our cars. Conversation started with them joking how they can't burn out because they have so much traction and just go. One expressed how much he really wanted one but just couldn't swing it.

No mention of Elon's twitter antics, no mention of toxic US politics, just someone who saw a cool car that he wished he owned. People here spend a lot of time online and are hyper focused on this stuff. It's a good reminder to myself and hopefully others that most people are living their lives generally blissfully unaware of the ridiculous world of Twitter etc.
 
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Thinking about the Litigation Team and this veer in mindset from having an attorney fighting only for the biggest payday, toward fighting to make the world a better place by focusing upon morals and ethics. This is something I hope becomes contagious and spreads though the world like a virus of goodwill.

Our world spins on an economic foundation primarily motivated by chasing profit at the detriment to nearly everything else. (climate, good will, etc.) This is a direct result of those who control forms of energy being able to play the marks (the rest of us) and keep us dancing on the strings they pull while doling out the very basis of growth and expansion for the human race in ways that are most profitable for this sub-group of energy magnates.

It now seems inevitable, with the advent of wind, solar, and battery, that this monopoly on power will be broken by a shift to renewables. The most wonderful aspect is how all can get skin in this game at an affordable entry point, from individuals to corporations, municipalities, counties, and states.

What this means is that the rules are about to change. If Energy is abundant and practically free, the motivation for squeezing every Watt and drop of fossil fuel for maximum profit will be replaced with a motivation toward more creative endeavors that stand a chance to be guided more by human growth and expansion of the things we need. This will happen at an exponential rate, as it will no longer be stifled by consideration of how to pay for it all. As most of the costs of all goods and services can be boiled down to energy costs.

Back when watching Star Trek as a boy the notion of a no-money society never made sense to me. How could it be possible? Now it has become clear how for them it was due to the inexpensive energy provided by di-lithium crystals. For us it may be lithium batteries and photovoltaic cells. Funny how art reflects life.

Some years ago I recall reading about Nicola Tesla approaching J.P. Morgan with his invention for harvesting and transmitting free electrical energy derived easily from that found in the environment. Sending power through the ground to a distant receiver at the point of use without the need to build elaborate infrastructure for transmission.

He was looking for a benefactor to fund development of the process in order to make it available for everyone and change the world for the better. He never expected Pierpoint to respond, "But Mr. Tesla, where will I put the meter?" before pulling his project's funding, as it would have threatened the foundation of Morgan's business and fortune.

Now, Tesla's namesake company is coming from a different angle at achieving the end result Nicola was wanting to share with the world, free energy. Only now, doing so with a business plan which is designed from the get-go to transition the world to practically free energy by empowering the consumer, rather than asking the current purveyors of energy to fund their own financial demise (despite it being the right thing to do).

We are fortunate to be alive at this turning point for humanity. Many do not yet grasp how this simple transition away from tightly controlled energy sources will trickle down through the human experience, changing the economic paradigm and making "doing the right thing" easier to adopt when financial motivation (cost of energy) is no longer the prime factor governing choices.

We are on the cusp of an era of change greater than any humanity has ever before achieved.

HODL
 
I'm thinking the smart thing to do is check out and ignore what is happening in the market for a few months. I have no concerns about TSLAs long-term value, given the rate of growth, doubling of manufacturing capacity, 4680, FSD, etc, etc. But the short-term, day-to-day drama is a distraction that isn't worth dealing with. Besides, I see no reason to think we aren't heading towards (if not in) a recession-the entire market is in the crapper (ironically with the exception of gas/oil stocks). But we've had recessions countless times before, they weed out the weak and help the strong companies get stronger. And I see TSLA as the strongest stock on the planet at the moment.

Now, I said I think that's the smart thing to do-will I do that? No. I like seeing the input of others...and am a glutton for punishment.