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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

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It’s not the first time, but seriously… how many times does TSLA have to beat expectations and have negative headlines post ER and have only a modest uptick after hours?

This is a tough environment and this team is crushing it. So confused.
We're already valued at a trailing PE of around 80 and forward PE of around 40. I think we're holding up pretty well under the circumstances, and once the market begins to recover we'll be able to take off again.
 
Based on what I learned from the shareholder deck and the earnings call I revised down my veh production numbers for 2023, but increased revenue per vehicle produced to come to a backward looking valuation based on price to sales on trailing twelve month revenue

Vehicle Production
Q1Q2Q3Q4annual
2021180206238305929
2022305258375487.51425.553%
2023500550605665.52320.563%

If we can hit the rough numbers for q3 and q4 of 2022 we can hit close to the 1.4M annual production target for a 53% production increase from 2021.

For 2023 I started with the 2 million vehicle runrate Tesla hopes to achieve by the end of 2022 and increased the quarterly numbers by 10% to reach a target of 2.3 million vehicles produced for a 63% increase over 2022 production

2022q1q2q3q4
trailing production1054110612431425.5
trailing revenue62,190,00067,000,00078,800,00095,100,000
2023q1q2q3q4
trailing production1620.51912.52142.52320.5
trailing revenue111,400,000133,000,000149,900,000162,500,000

For revenue estimates see the below table.

Rev per veh produced
2021q1q2q3q4
rev10.31213.717.7
veh prod305206238306
$ 33,770 $ 58,252 $ 57,563 $ 57,843
2022q1q2q3q4
rev18.716.925.534
veh prod305258375487.5
$ 61,311 $ 65,504 $ 68,000 $ 69,744
2023q1q2q3q4
rev3538.542.446.6
veh prod500550605665.5
$ 70,000 $ 70,000 $ 70,083 $ 70,023

For q2 we saw revenue per vehicle produced increase 6% from q1. I believe we will continue to see this growth, but I only incrementally increased revenue per vehicle produced for q3 and q4 of 2022 and capped it at about $70k per vehicle produced in 2023

2022 price to sales valuation
price/salesQ1Q2Q3Q4
10.3$620$668$785$948
11.5$692$746$877$1,058
15$903$972$1,144$1,380
20$1,203$1,297$1,525$1,840

As noted before we hit a q1 low price to sales valuation of 10.3. The high in q1 was just over 19. For q2 we currently sit at about an 11.5 price to sales ratio with a corresponding share price of $746.

I see us ending 2022 in a share price range of $1,058-$1,840 (ignoring the split).

2023 price to sales valuation
price/salesQ1Q2Q3Q4
10.3$1,110$1,325$1,494$1,619
15$1,617$1,930$2,176$2,358
20$2,156$2,574$2,901$3,145
These are the trading ranges I can see for each quarter in 2023.
 
Anybody interested in starting a company for lithium refining?
New thread:
The TMC Mining Corporation
If y'all decide to go ahead in Cornwall, UK, I would be happy to check folk are using their pickaxes sufficiently on my way down to my gin palace. Assuming pyjamas are okay with dress code that is...
1658380366298.png
 
It’s not the first time, but seriously… how many times does TSLA have to beat expectations and have negative headlines post ER and have only a modest uptick after hours?

This is a tough environment and this team is crushing it. So confused.

It has always been this way. TSLA falls on bad news, falls on good news, and rises on no news. The reward for suffering through the frustration of this has been massive gains over time.
 
It has always been this way. TSLA falls on bad news, falls on good news, and rises on no news. The reward for suffering through the frustration of this has been massive gains over time.
Correct.

Basically analysts are incapable of factoring any news into their models because they don't know whether it is positive, negative or neutral to valuation or the news is a reality or head-fake, especially with civilization-changing innovations like FSD - but then again, I have no idea whether FSD will be worth $120b revenue to Tesla in 10 years (at 80 % margins) or $10bn as an advanced driver assistants system. I certainly give Tesla a 50% chance of solving FSD relatively soon (say next 5 years) but that is purely me judging Elon on his track record not on any analysis of the road to success for FSB which nobody knows anyway, Even the Tesla FSD development model is based on "iteration and trust the maths" (nothing wrong with that, but again, hard to model into revenue!),

True innovation only gets modelled in hyper bull markets, and then it is way over-priced anyway (or better said, the high amount of risk is not priced in) and people lose their money by investing in sh*tty companies where nobody actually understood either the innovation or business model

So no news is good news for the share price as TSLA is now at the stage where it trades on fundamentals anyway. When FSD actually works then share price will double or triple overnight
 
That would be nice... Anyone have an opinion on TeslaBoomerMums qualification? Gary seems to think highly of her.

Lol! No need! She's here, ask her yourself. Username: @MmeAlexandraS

She replied to my comment #335,871 with her #335,918 on Apr 24, 2022.

Followed by @Prunesquallor #335,921 and my #335,922 which brings us to TeslaBoomerMama's tweet:

💖 T≡SLA Boomer Mama ✨ on Twitter: "Had the time to run numbers and ratios, and given my conviction that both S&P and Moody's are striving to go unnoticed, I am predicting that we have an upgrade of Tesla's credit rating to investment grade in the next 3-4 weeks, latest by mid August. Comment below, please." / Twitter

FYJuUzJUUAErM1v


Personally, I have held for years now that as soon as The Fed stopped handing out free money to 'Investment Grade' Companies (via 'Quantitative Easing' a.k.a. buying Corporate paper), then the rating agencies would be freed from their censure against rating Tesla's debt appropriately (ie: 'Investment Grade').

Now, The Fed is doing 'Quantitative Tightening', meaning they're selling that Corporate paper (thus putting ↓ pressure on those Company's SP). But since they can't sell Tesla bonds they didn't buy, well credit's no longer an issue, right?

Shortzes and Hedgies don't just own the SEC, they also own Moody's (and the S&P DJI), and 80% of Wall St. ... :p

Cheers!
 
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I'm sure it's been done, so apologies for wasting bandwidth, but with the Q2 actuals now out, what would/could have Q2 been without the Shanghai shut down?
Well, it hasn't been done, and it would be easy to do, either. First, (per Zach) you'd have to back out the 'idle charges' and 2nd, remove the 'restart costs' at Giga Shanghai. Then there's the interupted plans: recall, the Model 3 expansion / upgrade was supposed to be complete in Q2; now its August. How much production was missed by that delay, beyond the ~100k-ish that were missed during the production pause/phased restart in Q2?

I know it's a bit of a "if my grandma had wheels, she'd be a wheelbarrow" type question, however I'm curious to the see the result without this force majeure event.

FuMasters?

Best guesses? 50% of Shanghai's possible contribution? And it does not matter. That's why Tesla guides for the Moon, but shoots for Mars! :D

Cheers to the Longs!
 
Nah, just some enthusiasts rehashing what has been said and known.

Ok, I'm going to re evaluate my statement, based upon something that has really stuck in my noggin, at least I think it was in this video.

For much of the existence of autos, things have added many safety features: better brakes, seat belts, airbags, crush zones, you get the gist. Even last night they talked about and the slide deck showed model S with tightening seat belts pre impact.

I think this video suggested that in a FSD solved world, many of these features are no longer needed and could be removed. It is not the kind of thing that would come about easily, but could offer significant cost savings. Perhaps FSD software costs helped by societal benefit from fewer crashes and simpler transport vehicles?
 
Post earnings reaction

Mid 2023 maybe CT? Bummer
Most questions on the call? not a benefit to me. Realistic 4680 discussions were nice, I'd prefer that it was a perfect product now, glad they keep improving. 2170 supplies sound adequate.
Li+ mining: Ok great, they are also working on some solutions. OK, they got the message out for others to mint money. Neutral rxn.
MP 3? Zero direct discussion on this, no details, no big painting of bullish picture, no big beautiful lush carrot dangling in front of the market horse. Come on man, git er done! The frame work is there though, and the Li refinement, 4680, Fe batteries, all of this is part of what is projected to be steps in new world order. But I want the MP3!!! Give positive focus items not the claimed distractions.

Good stuff: Sounds like a good crew of friends solving problems. Karpathy sarcasm.