Changing sourcing is easier said than done for something like batteries at scale
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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable
- Thread starter AudubonB
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Hmm, that article has this line: "An analysis by the Congressional Budget Office on Wednesday suggested just 11,000 new EVs would use the credit in 2023."
How would Tesla NOT qualify?
I think it was during one of the more recent earnings calls. From what I recall, he said there were currently no plans for any iron chemistry cylindrical cells.
The big difference between driving and screwing piles is that when screwing piles there is very little vibration that could hamper buildings/processes nearby, compared to driving piles down. No difference for ground water itself that I can think of, but maybe I am overlooking some special conditions in the ground there that I do not know of.
Both kind of piles go down to layers in the ground where the resistance of the soil is high enough to bear the load on top of the piles.
Furthermore driving piles have been pre-fabricated whereas the screwed piles use fresh concrete, so those must harden some weeks before the load can be applied.
There are some more differences, but those become too detailed for this thread.
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Where do they get the minerals from? I know they try to localize supplies but they have been complaining about how much shipping back and forth that minerals go through before they are used.
And I think people are jumping the gun, doesn't it have to go to the House for approval now?
House approval is easier than Senate approval.
2daMoon
Mostly Harmless
Maybe they were listing models of EV, including those from GM, rather than units of production?
That number is derived by dividing out the expected cost impact — the congressional budget office expects the credit will cost taxpayers only $85million in 2023Maybe they were listing models of EV, including those from GM, rather than units of production?
$85million / $7500 per pop = 11,333 credits in 2023
And they determined its 85M how?
With the bill likely to become law does it make sense to build the next factory in North America ? I think the north east or Canada would be the best options.
They probably have experts in the field who know exactly what each manufacturer’s batteries contain and what would qualify, then they’re probably doing modeling around how quickly the mineral etc supply
chains can be built in North America or other free trade countries — this is really an anti-China supply chain bill
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U.S. Congress office sees few tax breaks for EVs under Democratic plan
A proposal by U.S. Senate Democrats to put income, price and domestic content conditions on electric vehicle tax breaks could initially sharply curtail the number of EVs that qualify, the Congressional Budget Office said on Wednesday.
www.reuters.com
The CBO estimates only $1.78billion in subsidies going to 2026, which works out to about 237,000 credits over that timeframe
Artful Dodger
"Neko no me"
Yeah, when did Elon say Tesla would make 4680s with LFP cathodes? Or more importantly, why would they? Partners already have leading-edge tech in LFP (ie: BYD Blade, CATL MP3), and the is no shortage of supply of capital, raw materials, or capacity: The LFP 4680 issue was addressed in this video 7 months ago:
No, Tesla Will Not Be Making 4680 LFP Batteries | The Tesla Economist (Jan 18, 2022)
Tesla does not need to move into the LFP production space: it's moving fast on it's own. I expect Tesla has already purchased at least half of this planned future volume:
2025: CATL's 1200 GWh Planned Capacity // + Tesla Cell Supply Forecast | The Limiting Factor (Nov 17, 2021)
It's high-nickel, high-performance for the future of 4680s. I expect Tesla will have an aviation ready 4680 cell in 10 years.
See above. Tesla goal is to obtain a massive supply of batteries at a good cost. The best way to do that is through competition. When Panasonic was too slow/unwilling to invest in further production in Nevada, Tesla started the 4680 project (remember when Tesla bought Maxwell Systems? That was way back in Feb 2019 - that's how long of a lead-time is involved with scaling new technologies).
Tesla still isn’t getting enough batteries from Panasonic - The Verge (Apr 11, 2019)
Now, due to this 'prompting' by Tesla, Panasonic is building a $5B battery factory in Kansas:
Panasonic to build EV battery plant for Tesla in U.S. state of Kansas | (Jul 14, 2022)
That's how you get top performance out of your suppliers. Single-sourced 2170 cells? Buy more from LG. Need better prices on LFP? Buy from BYD and CATL. Best tech wins in the virtuous cycle. But Tesla doesn't have to do it all themselves, they just set the specs and the $$.
Cheers!
2daMoon
Mostly Harmless
Another at Texas would be a good option. Does another factory necessarily have to be another location?
They put wheels in tennis shoes, also some factories have employees using roller skates, so not a bad idea. I take it your talking about using them in Optimus right?
Would be great to know if Tesla qualifies and to what extent this year and next.They probably have experts in the field who know exactly what each manufacturer’s batteries contain and what would qualify, then they’re probably doing modeling around how quickly the mineral etc supply
chains can be built in North America or other free trade countries — this is really an anti-China supply chain bill
U.S. Congress office sees few tax breaks for EVs under Democratic plan
A proposal by U.S. Senate Democrats to put income, price and domestic content conditions on electric vehicle tax breaks could initially sharply curtail the number of EVs that qualify, the Congressional Budget Office said on Wednesday.
The CBO estimates only $1.78billion in subsidies going to 2026, which works out to about 237,000 credits over that timeframe
Wonder if elon will tweet about it?
I am thinking FL is the next location.
2nd biggest ev market in the US. Already buddy up with DeSantis. Very favorable tax rate like Texas. Population influx is extremely high.
It might be necessary to be a different location also, as you won’t be able to double the number of workers in the same area.
Might be easier to get the workforce and have less distance to deliver the cars, even if they can drive themselves in the future, in a new location/s. At the volumes that are planned, every little thing can have a huge impact.
Yeah, FL and probably Orlando area makes the most sense next.
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If the statements and details around this are accurate, it might be an indirect benefit to Tesla just based on this bill sounding like it would eliminate credits for competitors who still have room under the current credit setup
But then you also have the income limits offsetting a bit of that
Either way it feels like a good prod towards breaking our dependence on China for most of this stuff
San Antonio was in the final 3 for the Gigafactory that went to Nevada, it's labor market is far away enough from Austin that there's <5% overlap, there's a Toyota Tundra plant here and it's likely some of those guys will need jobs in the future, Monterrey Tech is a few hundred miles away - great auto engineering university, housing is cheap compared to Austin, Southwest Research is here (they do testing on literally every OEM's cars for something), electric VTOL craft will be born here (insider info prediction), and cattledog is here - what's not to love (other than the last point)?
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