Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
Price After Potential Incentives

Excluding sales tax and including installation

For the states that charge I'd think 10% would be in the right ballpark but many states don't charge taxes on Solar PV.

For example in my state it's 100% exempt on sales tax and the property tax is limited to "Tax value no more than 12.5% of installed cost"

per Solar Tax Exemptions | SEIA
>There are 25 states that offer sales tax exemptions for solar energy.
> There are 36 states that offer property tax exemptions for solar energy.

Sales and property tax exemptions for home solar power has a more readable list.
Thanks.

In the UK the VAT on solar is currenntly 0%, down from the 5% it was a while back. In both UK and across the EU the trend is to minimise or nil-rate tax on domestic renewable installs.

So tax wise it looks to be a like-for-like comparison.
 
TSLA is holding amazingly strong given the week the overall market has suffered. Just feels like it's ready to blow with just a little push. Either some news from Powell that interest rate hikes are tapering off, some good news on inflation/CPI, a break in the war....let alone native Tesla progress (as expected) in terms of production/sales growth, new product release, energy or FSD wide release.
 
Is Tavares myopic to declare that logically, clean power should be first?
Yes. ICE vehicles are far less efficient at converting fuel to motion. Even if you assume an EV is 100% coal powered today, an EV produces less emissions simply due to efficiency of converting fuel to motion. In addition, every year that goes by the EV produces fewer emissions as the grid gets cleaner.
How was he wrong? Factually.
The grid will never be "Ready" for EVs. Power companies are not going to spend 10 years investing in infrastructure which might be needed but is not currently. They are going to respond to actual demand today. So there will literally never be a time where we have a bunch of excess grid capacity for EVs to grow into.

It makes much more sense for the 2 to develop sympathetically, particularly since the addition of distributed power, solar, and battery storage requires it change as well. Its going to take a decade or more for all vehicle production to shift from ICE to EV completely. It makes far more sense for these industries to evolve in parallel.

Most important for Stellantis, regardless of whether they produce a single EV or not, demand for EVs is growing fast. If his company fails to fill that demand, his products will simply be displaced by companies that do offer EVs. This is the void Tesla is filling and will continue to fill.

The companies that wait until "The Grid is Ready" will not exist when it actually is fully ready.
 
Tesla going to ride that upper BB to the golden cross? Paging @Artful Dodger

Lol, do you mean the MA(200) and the MA(10) or 50? That's not going to happen on a upswing, we crossed the 200-day Moving average 3 session ago.

sc.TSLA.50-DayChart.2022-09-19.11-45.Capped.at.310.png


The Upper-BB acts like a cap as the SP moves up, so can't say we 'ride-it' either. More like we 'drive' it. I think you need to spruce up your chartology... ;)

I'd say the Open Interest for Call and Puts at 300/310 is driving the SP action right now, with MMs also needing to replace some shares from last Fridays, but they have 13 days before they have to report any non-delivered shares.

Overall, we've been in a holding pattern since Aug 01 waiting on Q3 results, with hard-core shortzes holding out for the twiitr tryal. No matter, Tesla is winning. :D

Cheers to the Longs!
 
2. As for charging infrastructure. Even North America, Western Europe and China have gigantic deficiencies in charging infrastructure. Is he wrong about that one?

Sorry for the double reply, but I didn't catch this at first.

You are posing the completely wrong question here.

Why is Musk the only automotive CEO who realizes that the only way the solution to this problem is to build a damned charging network?

Way back when Tesla was a baby company with no money in the bank, Musk recognized this was a concern and even though they couldn't afford it, Tesla built a charging network. Yes it has holes still, but they are filling them quickly. Tesla had no resources to spare for this, but they saw the problem and resolved it. Every other auto maker looks at the problem and even though they have billions of dollars of capacity at their disposal they throw their hands in the air and say "This is unsolvable".

You are suggesting that the worlds second (third?) biggest auto maker can't do something Tesla did with a tiny fraction of their resources? Tesla was having trouble meeting payroll and still building out their Supercharger network... but Stellantis can't solve this?

What is missing here is the will to move forward and/ or the competency to execute.
 
How was he wrong? Factually.
I do agree on some of his points but....

At 2:26 in the video quoted in your post he says "and then somebody will say 'now you can charge our EV but what about the energy, is it clean?' If its not clean than the efficiency of the EV is not optimal, so you need clean energy"

The efficiency of a EV doesn't matter it's energy source. It's not like coal powered energy is going to clog up the battery in your EV and make you go slower and require more energy to get from point A to B. If you take it to mean that he means the impact of an EV has on the environment using power source then using the word "optimal" is a slippery slope. You could say that huge solar farms and with the transmission of power across hundreds of miles and then to your house is less optimal than solar roof charging (due to power line loss in transmission). So then it's going to be 'Sorry guys, it's only 99% efficient and not the optimal 99.9% efficient so we cant transition to EVs yet until everyone has rooftop solar.' 🤷‍♂️

Additionally he then mentions this "strategic plan" of moving to clean energy generation, charging infrastructure, and BEVs but then can only see a linear progression from one to the next. These transitions have already begun and are running in parallel. If he was talking to a 10 year old it would make sense but any educated person can see he is simply 'kicking the egg down the road' as @Artful Dodger describes it perfectly.
 
Last edited:
was referring to the 200&50

Okay, as you can see in my SC(50)+MA(200) chart above, those two curves are likely to cross within 2 weeks. That puts us solidly into the expected release date for Q3 P&D, so any technical analysis is going to be overshadowed by company news.

Still, I fully expect die-hard shortzes to hold out for the twiitr newz (they like to place bad / long-shot bets).

Cheers!
 
Lol, do you mean the MA(200) and the MA(10) or 50? That's not going to happen on a upswing, we crossed the 200-day Moving average 3 session ago.

View attachment 854250

The Upper-BB acts like a cap as the SP moves up, so can't say we 'ride-it' either. More like we 'drive' it. I think you need to spruce up your chartology... ;)

I'd say the Open Interest for Call and Puts at 300/310 is driving the SP action right now, with MMs also needing to replace some shares from last Fridays, but they have 13 days before they have to report any non-delivered shares.

Overall, we've been in a holding pattern since Aug 01 waiting on Q3 results, with hard-core shortzes holding out for the twiitr tryal. No matter, Tesla is winning. :D

Cheers to the Longs!
How are we winning when $TSLA is only up 1.2% and GM is up 2.6% today??

/s
 
How are we winning when $TSLA is only up 1.2% and GM is up 2.6% today??

/s

Haha, lemme check the 5-yr and 10-yr charts... Yes.

Meanwhile, GM is getting ready to sell a $30K mid-size SUV for which they don't have enough battery cells to move to mass production. Good thing too, since they're planning to sell it at a loss.

Maybe Uncle Joe's treasure chest helps them tread water for a while, but it's just a matter of time until people realize it's yet-another-miss and what they really want is Tesla quality... ;)

Cheers!
 
The grid will never be "Ready" for EVs. Power companies are not going to spend 10 years investing in infrastructure which might be needed but is not currently. They are going to respond to actual demand today. So there will literally never be a time where we have a bunch of excess grid capacity for EVs to grow into.

It makes much more sense for the 2 to develop sympathetically, particularly since the addition of distributed power, solar, and battery storage requires it change as well. Its going to take a decade or more for all vehicle production to shift from ICE to EV completely. It makes far more sense for these industries to evolve in parallel.

Most important for Stellantis, regardless of whether they produce a single EV or not, demand for EVs is growing fast. If his company fails to fill that demand, his products will simply be displaced by companies that do offer EVs. This is the void Tesla is filling and will continue to fill.

The companies that wait until "The Grid is Ready" will not exist when it actually is fully ready.
Ultimately, that's no different than the evolution of ICE and the gas station infrastructure. Henry Ford started producing the Model T in 1908 IIRC-there wasn't an Exxon on every corner. From what I've read, an early sources for gas was at pharmacies, where they sold it by the can. Yet the infrastructure developed and expanded organically-without government intervention. The same has been happening (though with more government involvement) in the charging world. Just look where we are now vs a decade ago. Grid and charging infrastructure will have to be developed just as the gas distribution infrastructure did.
 
Then subsidised Australian prices are USD $17k, US subsidised are $25k, and UK unsubsidised are $19k. That is for 12kW PV + 10kWh storage. Interesting.
Probably closer $15.5k USD for 12kW PV + 10kWh storage including local battery subsidies. (Powerwall2 is 13.5 kWh and would be more expensive. Available battery rebates are around $2k.)
 
Okay, as you can see in my SC(50)+MA(200) chart above, those two curves are likely to cross within 2 weeks. That puts us solidly into the expected release date for Q3 P&D, so any technical analysis is going to be overshadowed by company news.
Looks like over the last week the 50day Has risen nearly 10 points from 275 to around 285.

Another noteworthy thing I saw that as these lows from the first 1-20 of our previous 50 day sessions continue to roll off, could move the MA up quicker.

I agree with what your saying, I’m just hoping for the golden cross to occur before the company news.

I believe the technical term is double whammy.
 
Sorry for the double reply, but I didn't catch this at first.

You are posing the completely wrong question here.

Why is Musk the only automotive CEO who realizes that the only way the solution to this problem is to build a damned charging network?

Way back when Tesla was a baby company with no money in the bank, Musk recognized this was a concern and even though they couldn't afford it, Tesla built a charging network. Yes it has holes still, but they are filling them quickly. Tesla had no resources to spare for this, but they saw the problem and resolved it. Every other auto maker looks at the problem and even though they have billions of dollars of capacity at their disposal they throw their hands in the air and say "This is unsolvable".

You are suggesting that the worlds second (third?) biggest auto maker can't do something Tesla did with a tiny fraction of their resources? Tesla was having trouble meeting payroll and still building out their Supercharger network... but Stellantis can't solve this?

What is missing here is the will to move forward and/ or the competency to execute.
I understand your point and don't argue that TSLA has the best charging solution. But that doesn't mean every EV maker has to have to have their own charging network (let alone unique plug). A decade ago, TSLA was the only practical game in town (along with a couple companies building glorified golf carts). There was no DC charging infrastructure at the time-TSLA was pretty much forced to develop that infrastructure in order to sell their cars. Fast forward and you have multiple companies developing charging infrastructure. There is much less need for every manufacturer to have their own system, when you have EVGO, Chargepoint and EA out there expanding quickly (quality/uptime are other issues). We don't see Chevy/Ford/Toyota gas stations, we don't need manufacturer-specific chargers on every corner.

However-not every charging company will survive and thrive, competition will kill those that can't compete on price and service. My personal hope is that Tesla builds out the SC network to support other manufacturers and become the Exxon of the charging world.
 
GigaBerlin's VINs are sequencially increasing and the subset that are exported to Norway are public (at e.g. Tesla Registration Stats), so the "German Tank Problem" is perfectly suited to estimate GigaBerlin's production:


With the expectation that the production rate at GigaBerlin is non-constant, the total production is less interesting than the recent rate of production on e.g. a weekly basis. As such one can base the estimate on the most recent D days - where for those D days the effective maximum observed VIN is the actual maximum observed VIN minus the maximum observed one D+1 days ago.

Because of the random nature of the day when a new maximum VIN is observed, the estimated rate of production is strongly dependent on the choice of D. Further, with a too small D, the fluctuations in the estimate are less likely to reflect actual production rate fluctuations and more likely to be an effect caused by the random nature of the maximum VIN occurrence. Lastly, with a too large D the estimate is at risk of being impacted by actual changes in the production rate during those D days.

To overcome this, one can compute the estimate for all meaningful values of D, e.g. D=7,8,9,... up to some limit where the production rate can be assumed to not have changed (e.g. some time after GigaBerlin's 2nd shift started). One can then make a histogram of the production estimates over D.

Based on this approach (for any histogram bucket size in the range 50 - 150) the average weekly production rate at GigaBerlin in the past 5, 6 and 7 weeks is about 1750.

Some expected, systematic errors in this approach:
1) There is some latency in a VIN being produced at GigaBerlin before it can be observed in Norway - basically the time to transport and register the vehicle there,
2) It is possible that certain production days are allocated to Norway, while others are not - e.g. if a whole train is going to be filled up with Norway exports. In such a case (a "Norway wave") the observed VINs will indicate a fluctuation in production rate which is not real but rather caused by a sampling bias. If this actually happens it seems to be on a timescale not discernible among the noisy samples.

Although the day is not yet finished, the maximum observed VIN in Norway grew today by close to 2k - after a bit of a lull. I will leave it to others to speculate why and just note that this causes the "German Tank Problem" estimate of GigaBerlin's weekly production to jump to around 2150.

I should also mention that in addition to a histogram I started using also the median to handle the outliers in the production estimate as it various across how many days D the estimate is based on. This yields the same overall estimate.