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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

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This is a bit of a US centric take … yeah North America is sitting pretty but Europe is staring at a large recession led by energy intensive manufacturing, China is unwinding the largest property bubble in the history of human civilization, and Japan looks like it’s headed towards national bankruptcy. Just those three places alone are almost half the global economy.
And there's the massive risk.

But there's always a huge risk looming, and if I can pick.....I'll take the danger of an EU recession leaking into the US.

There so much stimulative stuff and deflationary pressures coming down the pike.....I think we can navigate out of this winderfully next summer/fall/winter if Putin can be somehow handled.
 
And there's the massive risk.

But there's always a huge risk looming, and if I can pick.....I'll take the danger of an EU recession leaking into the US.

There so much stimulative stuff and deflationary pressures coming down the pike.....I think we can navigate out of this winderfully next summer/fall/winter if Putin can be somehow handled.

A positive black swan would be if what’s going on in Iran leads to real positive change.. then the world could basically tell Putin to go FOAD forever.
 
Sorry to break in and talk about TSLA :) nice to see some 3% relief after that brutal prior week of macro pain. TSLA is still stuck in a range it first entered in July. Hopefully next week we will emerge out of that range.

I realised no-one will be attributing any TSLA climbing next week to AI Day 2022. If there is any climbing... it will be attributed to the Q3 delivery numbers, which IMO is a much bigger deal. Lots of Tesla news next Monday
Yes, we just about recovered from Friday's drop, but still down by Thursday's and Wednesday drops.
If we continue recovery with this amounts for 2 more days, then by Wednesday we will be right back where we were last Wednesday morning.

It is actually a good thing that Q3 delivery will overshadow AI day, otherwise we would be looking at yet another drop , or should I call it "buying opportunity". Its not for investors (recruiting event) and the investors will be disappointed, you can bet on that.
 
Hand crafted algo's, no AI that I know of. It is all pre-programmed for one particular set of actions in a static environment.

Possibly relevant (though extremely recent)
 
And there's the massive risk.

But there's always a huge risk looming, and if I can pick.....I'll take the danger of an EU recession leaking into the US.

There so much stimulative stuff and deflationary pressures coming down the pike.....I think we can navigate out of this winderfully next summer/fall/winter if Putin can be somehow handled.
I would say deflation is a legitimate risk to the US economy. The US economy doesn't handle deflation very well at all historically. Brief, short periods of it would be welcomed... 6 months or a year of it would likely cause some major issues.

I think there are legitimate economic worries out there. In those times, execution and cash flow are king.
 
A positive black swan would be if what’s going on in Iran leads to real positive change.. then the world could basically tell Putin to go FOAD forever.
I think too optimistically. Obviously. But we are sitting here with unrest in Iran and Putin teetering. All with a backdrop of the entire world semi-united on the renewables transition......

Could be a delightful spring. I'm sure we'll screw it up in some unimaginably moronic fashion.
 
Possibly relevant (though extremely recent)

To try and keep the best talent from flocking to Tesla…
 
It's good for the top 25% or so, but for everyone else this amount of inflation risks driving our wealth and income inequality further into record territory. I think we can all agree that would be net negative.

I wasn't in the hawkish camp going into this Fed meeting, but this global market reaction is so beautiful I'm now a believer. We needed to push out of stimulative and past neutral on Fed funds, now we have and the world has taken notice.

So long as they realize the magnitude of what's already been done, we should be fine. GDP growth may take a hit into technical recession, but it sure looks to me like this "plan to raise unemployment to 4.4%" is just talk.

We can get into a mild recession and keep this job market. Hell, we're likely already halfway thru it.

The Fed needed to regain the respect of the markets and it has. Let's see how the Sep CPI looks, then we can transition to .25 hikes and pauses.

Inflation is good for no one. Not the top 25%, not the top 1% . . . NO ONE.

It may hurt the lower brackets MORE, but it doesn't help anyone.
 
This is the biggest problem right now. The FED has gone on record that it will crush wage inflation. It is willing to create pain for this to happen. Yet the labor market is crazy strong. So the only way to really crush wage inflation is to break the back of the labor market with stupidly aggressive interest hikes to plunge to economy into a bad recession.

WS sees this now and is prepared to price in nasty stuff reminiscent of 2008. And it does not have to get 2008 bad for another 25% market haircut anyway.

US FED is always reacting. Now they are leaning the most on data that is lagging, like the CPI indicators, and they are all data nerds. Why would they do this? Almost makes you think they have an agenda...
I just don't really understand how rising rates for an economy that is based on debt "crushes" inflation. They are literally inflating people's payment toward the banks by rising interest rates. If this economy was not so depended on debt, then yeah sure people may spend less and save more through higher return for their money...however this is not the case. It's like "I see that wage earners are being crushed by inflation, so lets rise their interest rates by 5% to help them....".

The government should focus more on caps on mandatory spending like rent and utilities vs increase borrowing cost. They should also focus on increasing supply vs decreasing demand.
 
This will be dictating our world the next two weeks. I know $333 seems far off, but with P&D looming I doubt MM's even want us touching $300 this week.

It's all about......

Screenshot_20220926-110954_Chrome.jpg

(next Fridays option expiration)

Gonna be fun to watch this play out.
 
This is a bit of a US centric take … yeah North America is sitting pretty but Europe is staring at a large recession led by energy intensive manufacturing, China is unwinding the largest property bubble in the history of human civilization, and Japan looks like it’s headed towards national bankruptcy. Just those three places alone are almost half the global economy.

Spot on. Sadly, this is an expected byproduct of being overly dependent upon fossil fuels. Those countries that are more self-reliant for energy (i.e. US, Middle East, etc.) will have a better time of it than those that are energy importers.

The only silver lining I can think of is that energy importers, if they are following market principles (i.e. their gov is not corrupt), will push towards renewables much quicker in order to be less reliant upon 3rd parties for their energy.
 
This will be dictating our world the next two weeks. I know $333 seems far off, but with P&D looming I doubt MM's even want us touching $300 this week.

It's all about......

View attachment 857011
(next Fridays option expiration)

Gonna be fun to watch this play out.
Once again, the call wall is giving me the finger for the week.
 
They should also focus on increasing supply vs decreasing demand.
10000% this last sentence. Prices are set by supply and demand. With Covid, supply chain disruptions, and Russian war, the price of goods and oil went soaring. Prices didn't jump because middle America had won the lottery and was flush with cash. I get that you can decrease spending/demand by making everyone poor (and very angry) in order to bring down prices. But you can also bring down prices by fixing the supply chain so we don't have shortages. I have lost all respect for Powell and the Fed. They are morons.
 
Possibly relevant (though extremely recent)
Very recent as there are no JDs yet on the careers site.

Will be interesting to see when they have something to demo. I'd guess an AI demo in 2024 earliest.
To try and keep the best talent from flocking to Tesla…
It won't have any material effect is my prediction.
 
Once again, the call wall is giving me the finger for the week.
I don't know about you, but I'll take 332.99 heading into the 3Q earnings FOMO week. The other thread would be content as well I assume.

We shouldn't need reminding that this SP is very very dangerous for options writers!
 
I still dont see how a recession is coming when we have such a shortage of labor.

I agree, for the US. We are in a very different economic “crisis” than anything we've ever seen.

We are facing the mass retirement of baby boomers. And to make it worse, they are the most skilled population segment we have. So everyone is moving up a step in terms of responsibility and pay, but there aren’t enough people to fill the gaps. This results in two things. A general lack of competence in the workforce as so-so people are hired to replace retiring highly skilled people (and I’m not just talking blue collar here, this goes for all white collar professions too), and an absolute hollowing out of the lowest tier of the entry level workforce resulting in huge pay increases for the bottom tier. This is a result of the demographic bulge of the baby boomers.

I find it hugely ironic that the Democrats made such a stink about $15 minimum wage. Restaurant servers are getting $20 starting wage around here.

Regardless of where you are on the political spectrum with regard to illegal immigration, the fact is that there are plenty of job openings for anyone who wants to work. It would be nice if both political parties worked together to fix our immigration system so we could have the right amount of legal immigration but both sides are making political hay from the current situation, so thanks for the leadership guys.

Now, add on top of this the economic destruction we had with Covid, and now the huge economic destruction we are having with the Russian war on Ukraine. People are predicting mass famine in a year in the poorer regions of the world when farmers have record low crops due to not being able to buy fertilizer now due to the war (Russia and Ukraine produce a huge amount of the worlds fertilizer inputs, and natural gas is also use to produce nitrogen fertilizer and Russia’s natural gas is going offline). The list of disruptions due to that war is long and important, neon for chip making, pig iron for steel making, etc.

Also, the world’s manufacturers are realizing that China isn’t very stable these days (Covid lockdowns have been continuing to hurt, and then you have unstable and unpredictable politics), AND their wages have skyrocketed. So manufacturing is in the process of reshoring to North America mostly. Even Apple is currently moving 25% of their manufacturing from China to India.

So in the short term we might get reduced economic output due to supply chain issues (unless the economy gets really good at substitution?). But that is going to be balanced by a big re-industrialization rebuilding for the next ten years.

Oh yeah, capital. All of these relocations are going to cost a lot of money. Meaning that interest rates are going to rise naturally anyways since there is going to be a lot of equity sales and borrowing going on to raise $$$.

I expect the Fed’s interest rate rises will continue AND it won’t dampen economic activity because we (the US) are actually in an expansionary phase of industrial plant building. People are freaking out about 3% interest rates. People have no memories. During the last huge expansionary boom, the dot-com 90s, we had 6% interest rates and liked it. Higher interest rates and a roaring economy are NOT mutually exclusive with the right set of circumstances.

Regionally, there will be big differences. North America as a whole is going to do great. We have food surpluses as well as cheap locally produced energy. The rest of the world is going to suck in the short term, then just be bad for the medium term. If you think Texas is getting crowded now (I was just in Houston and it was traffic jam city everywhere) you ain't seen nothing yet. Their cheap energy, huge tracts of empty land, and low regulatory footprint all make it very attractive. States close to Texas will get spill over positive effects - the deep south will continue attracting investment.

Tesla will continue to do well in this environment because they have their sh*t together. In general, companies with disruptive technologies will do great.

My middle son was a teachers aide last spring in Austin while he has been going through a software engineering bootcamp. This fall the Austin school district made him a 5th grade teacher. The principal knows that he could get a job offer any minute, but she had no choice. The school district is way understaffed and week after week they have COVID outbreaks that reduce teaching staff. Two weeks ago my son had 40 students in his class because teachers out with COVID. He doesnt have a teachers certificate, his bachelors degree is a double major of Political Theory and Arabic. He was supposed to go into Peace Corp, but pandemic killed that. My daughter in-law is a counselor at the school and she is getting called in to sub classes because of shortage.

Yep, Texas unemployment will soon start to be expressed with an extra digit like 0.72% :)
 
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10000% this last sentence. Prices are set by supply and demand. With Covid, supply chain disruptions, and Russian war, the price of goods and oil went soaring. Prices didn't jump because middle America had won the lottery and was flush with cash. I get that you can decrease spending/demand by making everyone poor (and very angry) in order to bring down prices. But you can also bring down prices by fixing the supply chain so we don't have shortages. I have lost all respect for Powell and the Fed. They are morons.
What I don't like the most is this "making everyone poorer" is by syphoning money into banks. "Oh you all are suffering from inflation?, well lets all give the banks your hard earned cash so you can buy less...don't worry..this will decrease prices". I rather they increase taxes vs increase rates.
 
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10000% this last sentence. Prices are set by supply and demand. With Covid, supply chain disruptions, and Russian war, the price of goods and oil went soaring. Prices didn't jump because middle America had won the lottery and was flush with cash. I get that you can decrease spending/demand by making everyone poor (and very angry) in order to bring down prices. But you can also bring down prices by fixing the supply chain so we don't have shortages. I have lost all respect for Powell and the Fed. They are morons.
So the fed can pull the interest rates lever to lessen demand. What can they realistically do to increase supply? At best it would seem they could lower rates to increase investment which eventually hopefully fixes supply, but waaaay down the road.