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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

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I have a lot of trouble with Elon's claim that CT can be used as a boat for short periods. Does he really think that he can seal these things up to withstand a saltwater bath? Why would you go to the trouble to do that for an affordable pickup truck? (Not that it doesn't sound really cool.)
I can't wait for one to cross the Columbia River between Pasco and Richland! Would be great if they were to develop wheels as Elon discussed or even hubcaps that would allow the CT to go faster than just a knot or two. Doubt you could waterski behind one though... although someone will probably try!
 
I have a lot of trouble with Elon's claim that CT can be used as a boat for short periods. Does he really think that he can seal these things up to withstand a saltwater bath? Why would you go to the trouble to do that for an affordable pickup truck? (Not that it doesn't sound really cool.)
Unlike ICE vehicles EV are inherently easier to seal. Tesla vehicles already float for short periods, shouldn't take much to improve upon that for the Cybertruck.
 
Why it is that posters here gush so slobbily over the Cybertruck and its capabilities is beyond me. Not one of you ever has seen it perform as a truck - ever - nor has any idea in the least of how well it stands up. "But Tesla" is beyond weak as a reason, not least because of the flaw the Model X has (and the Model S? I cannot remember) with the altered stresses on joints when raised to the two "High" positions. "Just keep it in "Regular' and you'll be fine", being Service's final recommendation to me, remains a massive failure for Tesla in my eyes.

As for me, I am leery for the simple reason that there now is such a phenomenally long time between it first having been unveiled - and that in itself was after a long development period - and now....and it still isn't ready to be "properly" shown? This is absolutely separate from bringing it into production; I am quite complacent with it needing to be behind the Models 3 & Y and their increased output.

I had the wonderful and completely unexpected opportunity to host two engineers from Rivian this summer. Both admitted what was well beyond their expectations was the difficultiy of bringing the concept to the reality. My most focused questioning to them regarded the suspension - see above -...."not my bailiwick" was, frustrating to me, their response. And that likewise is what I have been most interested in regarding the Cybertruck, too...Tesla similarly has been tightlipped there, also.
The board and broader Tesla social media community has had many discussions about the fundamental engineering superiority of the Cybertruck for truck purposes and general badassity. The Tesla design team set out to develop an atoms-up clean-sheet design for the Platonic ideal of a pickup truck that’s as tough, rugged, durable, powerful, safe, affordable and utilitarian as the Standard Model of physics allows for, while fitting in the length/width/height envelope of an F-150 and using technology that can be achieved now. The Cybertruck is a paragon of the “Form Follows Function” principle in machine design and a masterful example of integration via multifunctional part design like the exoskeleton and structural battery while decoupling where advantageous like with the adaptive air suspension eliminating the traditional trade-offs with tuning truck suspensions. This is why we can confidently expect it will dominate in every measurable category and the main legitimate nitpick people might have is that they don’t like the aesthetics.

"But Tesla" is beyond strong as a reason. They've gotten extremely good at what they do. Back in like 2014 when they were designing the X they weren't anywhere close the the level they're at now. If we are going to use Tesla's past track record on design successes, shouldn't we look at more data instead of one anecdote and see if there's any trends and see how Tesla has been doing more recently? I think they've earned enough prior credibility at this point that I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt on claims for this project which Elon refers to as Tesla's vehicle masterpiece. The fact that it’s been delayed due to COVID disruptions and unexpected demand for 3 and Y means that Tesla had had more time to optimize the design and get stuff like the air suspension working well.
 
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Fair enough. I appreciate the reasons.

I guess for me (And I've only been a short holder of Tesla, last few years) I've seen what happens when big money doesn't want to buy Tesla. We trade sideways while the index and other stocks trade upwards (Tesla 600 last year for 6 + months). So i know that no matter how much you dislike them, or don't care about them, if you are a Tesla stock holder, you need them. The majority of them are sheep so they'll all just follow each other. So when we are in times like this, just try to think like them and that'll help explain why the stock may be trading the way it is.
I appreciate your overall reasoning taking into consideration your context as a short term investor, but at some point (perhaps after Musk is gone), Tesla will be issuing dividends. For those of us planning to hold shares extremely long-term, share price is pragmatically irrelevant (though psychologically impactful); share price does very little to directly help or hinder the actual activity of Tesla - the recent drop in SP certainly doesn't impact on production & deliveries & margins.

If you're gambling with the stock market, or must sell at any point, then following Big Money matters a lot. Trading options (especially shorting) is not my personal cup of tea, but I understand the allure of it, and it can be profitable if you're very smart and/or lucky.

I do think that Big Money shorting should be illegal due to the inevitable FUD lies and manipulations and the obsolete reasoning (it was relevant pre-online investing). Since it's legal, I also don't begrudge people here engaging in options trading, and I hope retail investors can make money at the expense of Big Money - but because they actively manipulate to get their way, I personally won't play this rigged game. I will, however, buy the dips when I can.

^I'm not a market expert, so if I'm missing some nuance, please chime in and tell me why SP matters more than what I think...

Cheers to the Longs!

*And happy Canadian Thanksgiving! I'm grateful for this fascinating community.
 
All right, you who so promptly flagged with a Disagree: Why? Would you care to elaborate, or did you mistakenly believe this is not a discussion forum, but Twitter?
I gave a disagree because your post is one of the more unsound, anecdotal, and speculative arguments I've heard on TMC in some time. What I gathered from your post is the following: Tesla may not be able to produce the Cybertruck as previously promised because: (1) Its been a really long time since unveiling. Must mean they're having difficulties. (2) Tesla once had some suspension related issues on a completely different vehicle designed years ago, and not designed for offroading. (3) Rivian engineers discussed "difficulty of bringing the concept to the reality" (🤔 feels like I've heard that line before) and are tightlipped or unable to discuss suspension. Thus, Tesla (and Rivian for that matter) must be having suspension design troubles.
 
Remember: my post was querying why participants in this site analyze everything Tesla….but, with nothing to back it up, they wax ecstatic over something for which ONLY anecdotal material has emerged. That is not healthy.

I have been championing Tesla to create a pickup truck since I first joined TMC in early 2013.

I plunked down my nickel to get in line for the CT at the first opportunity.

I have a pretty good - not unassailable but pretty good - reckoning as to where I stand within the TMC Investor thread wrt number of shares controlled; it is likely in the top three and with a dead certainty in the top five. What all the above mean is that I WANT the CT to excel.

Have your own opinions - no one can say I’ve ever done anything but encourage that. But this community merits all to show why a product - whether it’s the CT, the Semi, Dojo, AI, the latest software revision - deserves accolades. And for me, one that effectively does not yet exist simply does not deserve unbridled adoration.
 
The political climate where the west just sits by and allows large amounts of Chinese EVs to be imported no longer exists. This isn’t 2006 anymore.

Hell, all the US has to do is match the 25% tariff that the Chinese put on American autos and that ends it right there.

Just yesterday Biden clamped down harder on semiconductor tech transfers. The anti-China sentiment is multipolar and rising, and China only has itself to blame.
I don’t know about anybody else, but me ain’t buy a Chinese car. This is not about racism, but about China government anti-human rights and anti-democracy. Looks at what they are doing in HongKong and Taiwan, not to mention claiming ownership of pretty much the whole ocean!
 
Remember: my post was querying why participants in this site analyze everything Tesla….but, with nothing to back it up, they wax ecstatic over something for which ONLY anecdotal material has emerged. That is not healthy.

I have been championing Tesla to create a pickup truck since I first joined TMC in early 2013.

I plunked down my nickel to get in line for the CT at the first opportunity.

I have a pretty good - not unassailable but pretty good - reckoning as to where I stand within the TMC Investor thread wrt number of shares controlled; it is likely in the top three and with a dead certainty in the top five. What all the above mean is that I WANT the CT to excel.

Have your own opinions - no one can say I’ve ever done anything but encourage that. But this community merits all to show why a product - whether it’s the CT, the Semi, Dojo, AI, the latest software revision - deserves accolades. And for me, one that effectively does not yet exist simply does not deserve unbridled adoration.
Elon's committed to making an amazing truck. What more do you need to know? (other than it'll be late!)
 
since Q2 was bad due to Covid shutdown, Tesla might have been better off not trying to undo the wave in Q3.

Most of that 'wave' was due to Hurricane Ian in Florida and the East cost. No amount of money wasted on logistics was going to get those cars to their new owners by midnight on Sep 30. I was the perfect time to unwind the delivery wave (and far more profitable).
 
I have a pretty good - not unassailable but pretty good - reckoning as to where I stand within the TMC Investor thread wrt number of shares controlled; it is likely in the top three and with a dead certainty in the top five. What all the above mean is that I WANT the CT to excel.

That's impressive. o_O What would be 10X more impressive is if you could list just three reasons why you doubt the CT will be a raging success with unbridled demand for years to come. Because all I'm hearing so far sounds like unsupported doubt of the Cybertrucks success and derision of anyone with a different opinion. Will there be faults? Certainly, every new vehicle has them. Will they be fatal? I have no reason to believe they will. Please share yours.
 
I am so bullish on TSLA stock right now.

4680 - I think Tesla seems to have figured out how to ramp the 4680 cells because they are now shipping the Semi on Dec 1st. I don’t think they would do that unless they had the battery supply for it. These Semis need 4680 cells.

Semi - critics said it was impossible. Tesla proves them wrong yet again.

Energy - Martin Viecha head of investor relations says Tesla is no more battery limited. They have all the batteries they need to ramp. This means the Energy division is going to start to grow fast.

FSD - this is the most frustrating cause we always here this year from Elon. I think he may get this year right. The latest fsd videos look really good and is pretty much as good as a new driver. It does not seem long now when you see how far they have come.

Q4 - sounds like this is going to be huge as usual. There might be a good chance of getting all that deferred revenue from fsd if there is a beta wide release.
 
Logically, if [a share buy-back] were to happen, it could be soon (low SP and tax changes next year).

We are now approaching the SP range where Tesla did their last $5B Cap Raise (Dec 08, 2020).


At the time, Tesla increased their cash by about 33% to $20B (we're still at $18.3B after Q2). This was achieved in exchange for shareholder dilution of less than 1%.

The Dec 2020 Cap Raise had an ASP ~$631.50 ($210.5 split-adjusted). Now, the 52-wk Low SP is $206.86 so that's a natural trigger level where Tesla could buy-back shares at less than their cost when issued in Dec 2020.

So, depending on how much FCF Tesla did in Q3, this may be a golden opportunity to invest in the best performing stock in the world: TSLA. And a standing order to buy puts a floor under the SP. :)

Cheers to the Longs!
 
We are now approaching the SP range where Tesla did their last $5B Cap Raise (Dec 08, 2020).


At the time, Tesla increased their cash by about 33% to $20B (we're still at $18.3B after Q2). This was achieved in exchange for shareholder dilution of less than 1%.

The Dec 2020 Cap Raise had an ASP ~$631.50 ($210.5 split-adjusted). Now, the 52-wk Low SP is $206.86 so that's a natural trigger level where Tesla could buy-back shares at less than their cost when issued in Dec 2020.

So, depending on how much FCF Tesla did in Q3, this may be a golden opportunity to invest in the best performing stock in the world: TSLA. And a standing order to buy puts a floor under the SP. :)

Cheers to the Longs!
Agree wholeheartedly. If Tesla is comfortably predicting decent and consistent FCF for the next few quarters, why stick all that moolah in the "bank" (or crypto)? Buying TSLA at the current prices is a steal.
 
There might be a good chance of getting all that deferred revenue from fsd if there is a beta wide release.
Likelihood of wide release before end of the yr = 69%
Likelihood that Zach would then take the majority of the deferred revenue in Q4 = 69%

Multiply the two together and you get an overall likelihood of umm ... 69%!

I'll take those odds.
 
The overall commercial trucking market has been growing steadily for the entire 21st century with two cyclical interruptions for the 2002 and 2008 recessions, as the stacked bar chart from Statista shows in my prior post today. Simple linear extrapolation of the growth trend for the Class 8 truck market in the US suggests that about 2.5M will be sold in the next decade. If I remember correctly, Tesla historically has taken about 40% market segment share in each respective segment for the S3XY lineup, so if they took 40% of 2.5M then they'd sell 1M which leads to $80B estimated subsidy with $80k per truck estimated earlier today. Likewise, for Classes 4-8 as a collective, there's currently sales of around 420k per year and with extrapolation of growth trends we can expect a baseline of maybe 5M sold in the next decade, so Tesla maybe could claim 2M of it with naive application of 40% market share history as representative of future market share performance.
In case it helps this was my best guess. I hope to have underestimated on the Semi and associated derivatives. Note this global.

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