Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[scaesare]

I know ... he was boasting. He keeps doing that and it falls on deaf ears. Just like his "greatest asset value increase in history because of FSD" stunt.

In other news ...

MSN

If you knew they said it was something they could do, why did you misquote him and say he stated they would do it?:

Tesla clearly said during ER they will cut prices to move the cars.

 

[Zero CO2]

and in other non TMC wager news :

Exxon delivers record first-quarter profit on higher output

Exxon Mobil Corp made a record first-quarter profit by pumping more oil and gas, beating analyst estimates and taking shares to an all-time high. Exxon doubled profits from the same quarter last year as higher output more than compensated for lower energy prices. Shares rose 2.3% to a record...

finance.yahoo.com

We need some of these so called "Tesla killers" to start succeeding Adam Jonas may be correct i could see F, GM, others cutting back on their EV investments ... the ICE profits are like crack... more cash for them to fund FUD

 

[CorneliusXX]

My point that seems to be being missed is that price reduction is not always evidence of a demand issue. We've seen them cut prices for other reasons. Hence "correlation is not causation" applies here.

What is another good reason for price cuts across the lineup?

 

[Artful Dodger]

This was organized by our local Tesla owners club, I have no idea..

Yeah, that local Tesla Owners Club got in trouble with Tesla for inviting Sandy Munro and
Cory Steuben (President - Munro & Associates) on the Club's visit to Giga Berlin. The Club is now banned from attending further events at Giga Berlin. Sandy and Cory discuss what happened in this video: (posted yesterday)

What Did Sandy & Cory See at Tesla's Giga Berlin Factory? Germany Trip Recap | Munro Live on Youtube

In the Army we had two applicable aphorisms:

1. No names; No pack dril, and
2. it's better to beg forgiveness than ask for permission.

I'm sure it'll be fine, most likely just a 'time-out' for the 'offenders', at least until they do something helpful (then it'll be 'all-is-forgiven')

Cheers!

 

[Unpilot]

Umm...what?

Tesla lawyers claim Elon Musk’s past statements about self-driving safety could just be deepfakes

A new way to avoid liability: the deepfake defense

www.theverge.com

The Verge....crap posting about EM and Tesla since ....forever.

 

[JusRelax]

Huh, Tesla?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1651953290689777666

 

[scaesare]

But it's not, since your claimed reason for the cuts didn't actually apply to most of the cuts this year.

My point was refuting that a price cut was evidence of a demand problem. Given that prices have been cut for other things (fed tax credit qualification, etc..), then clearly you cannot assert that price-cut=demand problem.

Now adding "Well, sure maybe there were other reasons too" seems an admission your recognize your claim was overly broad...and not a very good objection to someone else who gave a specific reason for the cuts other than your original one that you were trying to refute.

No, it was not an overly broad claim. It was a specific response to @EVNow , who said:

Tesla has to cut prices again and again this year.

Context matters.

 

[bkp_duke]

and in other non TMC wager news :

Exxon delivers record first-quarter profit on higher output

Exxon Mobil Corp made a record first-quarter profit by pumping more oil and gas, beating analyst estimates and taking shares to an all-time high. Exxon doubled profits from the same quarter last year as higher output more than compensated for lower energy prices. Shares rose 2.3% to a record...

finance.yahoo.com

We need some of these so called "Tesla killers" to start succeeding Adam Jonas may be correct i could see F, GM, others cutting back on their EV investments ... the ICE profits are like crack... more cash for them to fund FUD

Honestly, I would not mind seeing F/GM/etc falter on EVs. They had their chance, and they can fail for all I care and let some other company more worthy than them pick up the mantle. I know, that potentially slows the transition, and that's a valid point, but these companies clearly don't care about anything but their profits.

 

[Krugerrand]

It's not dishonorable, they raised the prices a few weeks after they dropped them. It's a legitimate reason.

I can't make you agree with me. It'll just have to be an agree to disagree situation.

Mr Moo, indeed. That’s a cow move, right there. Sell one TSLA share today and make good on your word.

@bkp_duke I’ve read enough of this guy’s posts over in that other thread. He has no honor or integrity.

 

[EVNow]

If you knew they said it was something they could do, why did you misquote him and say he stated they would do it?:

You are not reading properly - the will part is not for zero GM. Go back and read

 

[phoggy123]

Huh, Tesla?

View attachment 932656

https://twitter.com/x/status/1651953290689777666

View attachment 932657

Cyber Quad?

 

[scaesare]

What is another good reason for price cuts across the lineup?

They've done it for tax credit qualification.
Elon has stated it has sometimes been because they've reduced costs
It's suggested they've done it (at least in part) to make them more accessible due to high interest rates

Do they manage demand to match production? No doubt. Is that the only reason for cuts? Only if you think Elon's lied.

 

[scaesare]

You are not reading properly - the will part is not for zero GM. Go back and read

Inded, that's that the quote I'm speaking of. Elon said they could do that. You sasid they will.

Full context:

Tesla clearly said during ER they will cut prices to move the cars. If need be all the way to 0% GM ...

Well , what he actually said was it's something they could do, given their unique position to profit from autonomy:

Elon Musk

Well, I can't emphasize enough the whole -- just fundamental question of affordability. For most people, their ability to buy a car is a function of can they make monthly payment or not. And so like I said, if interest rates are really high, like they are right now, then in some cases, people can't get a loan at all.

So it's -- I think probably banks are pretty -- not leaning forward in providing loans, I expect, these days. So that's -- like there is -- there is quite a powerful story here when you -- going back to something as alluded to a moment ago -- I mentioned a moment ago that Tesla is in a uniquely strong strategic position. Because we're the only ones making cars that technically, we could sell for zero profit for now and then yield actually tremendous economics in the future through autonomy, no one else can do that. I'm not sure how many people will appreciate the profundity of what I've just said, but it is extremely significant

I know ... he was boasting.

If you knew they said it was something they could do, why did you misquote him and say he stated they would do it?

You even included the 0% part which makes it clear which Elon quote you were misquoting.

 

[InTheMiddle]

That reminds me . . . @MrMoo you owe me one TSLA share. I won the bet we made in this thread that AGM would remain > 18%.

Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

Put your money where your mouth is. I'll bet you a TSLA share that margins didn't drop by even 35%, much less your predicted 67%. So to clarify, you want to do a 1 Tesla share bet that Q1 2023 auto margins went from Q3 28% down to 18% or above? How would we even pay that out ? lol

teslamotorsclub.com

I'll find a charity that you can donate the cash equivalent to.

Bro we already talked about this in the PM's i sent. But feel free to keep asking for it.

And I did NOT agree to your request to let you out of the bet.

You are dishonorably trying to squelch on like a $150 bet. Even a moderator here told me to keep hounding you about the bet.

I bet...hmmm...I bet that this forum has gotten more than $150 of enjoyment from this back and forth. In fact, I bet this forum has gotten more than double that ($300) worth of enjoyment from this back and forth. If I'm wrong and the forum would like this to go away, @bkp_duke and @MrMoo can each post up a name of a US-based, non-political, non-religious, 501(c)3 organization and I will donate $150 to each of them* to end the discussion. (*If the named charity is something I cannot in good faith contribute to, in my sole discretionary determination, despite those qualifications, I will replace that charity with TMC itself as the recipient for that $150 contribution.) But I'm guessing most here would rather just keep the popcorn flowing to see what happens next. Where did Bkp_duke pm MrMoo it should go to? Will MrMoo finally make the donation? Or will they both go double-or-nothing for the next quarter? Stay tuned for the next exciting episode of Posts of Our TMC Lives!

 

[Opus BC fan]

meanwhile, the MMs were executing their plans to make the SP match Max Pain by the day's end...

 

[Artful Dodger]

Huh, Tesla?

[Tesla Bicycles in Shanghai]

Nope, never gonna happen... Oh wait...

Elon Musk says a Tesla Electric Bicycle could be coming | Elec-trick.co (Nov 2, 2018)

So, is that 'Elon-time'?

 

[willow_hiller]

What is another good reason for price cuts across the lineup?

The real world isn't as simple as economic models, but I am seeing a consistent misunderstanding here and on Tesla-Twitter about a shift in the demand curve, versus the equilibrium point moving along the existing demand curve. Tesla is increasing supply, so it's entirely possible that the demand curve is staying entirely static:

A shift in the supply curve from S1 to S2, leads to an equilibrium increase in quantity from Q1 to Q2, and a decrease in price from P1 to P2.

Compare that to holding the supply curve constant, and shifting the demand curve down and to the left:

I'm also seeing a lot of misunderstanding about demand elasticity. Elasticity refers to the marginal change along the curve (the slope of the line tangent to the curve at the equilibrium point), and because the demand curve is not linear as shown above, demand elasticity can change as the equilibrium point changes without the underlying demand curve changing at all.

Notice how the first marginal change in price from $6 to $5 yields a 10 unit change in equilibrium quantity. That's highly inelastic. Later down the curve, a $1 change in price yields a 100 unit change in quantity. Demand becomes more and more elastic as the slope of this curve changes.

 

[Hiline]

Honestly, I would not mind seeing F/GM/etc falter on EVs. They had their chance, and they can fail for all I care and let some other company more worthy than them pick up the mantle. I know, that potentially slows the transition, and that's a valid point, but these companies clearly don't care about anything but their profits.

Profits are the reason corporations exist. Profits are what allow corporations to grow their business and pay employee. If profits drive them to make the transition to EV, that's good for everyone. If they don't succeed, a lot of jobs are going to be lost and a lot of government money is going to be wasted. Imagine Michigan without the auto industry.

I'd much rather they, along with Tesla, succeeded. The joined forces will speed up EV adoption and benefit everyone.

 

[Artful Dodger]

meanwhile, the MMs were executing their plans to make the SP match Max Pain by the day's end...

Thanks for that beaker of TSLA-related market news. Refreshing! For the rest this morning, I remind you:

Cheers to the Longs!

 

[MartinAustin]

Umm...what?

Tesla lawyers claim Elon Musk’s past statements about self-driving safety could just be deepfakes

A new way to avoid liability: the deepfake defense

www.theverge.com

It's The Verge. A wise person does not refer to that site for unbiased coverage of Tesla or EM