Krugerrand
Meow
BOTH are Elon.
It’s just the most amazing coincidence that so many participants disappeared for green days since ER and then just as suddenly reappear for a red day.
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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable
- Thread starter AudubonB
- Start date
It’s just the most amazing coincidence that so many participants disappeared for green days since ER and then just as suddenly reappear for a red day.
according to Grok
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Krugerrand
Meow
It’s hard firing ‘good’ employees. It’s remarkably easy firing not so good employees. I’ve done both.
1,000,000% we don’t have the whole story. And yet -
Absolute madness, this is one area where Tesla had the foresight to invest in and as a result it is now the leader.
Arguably EVs would not have been as viable without the network tesla built.
Logically you continue to build on this strength. Even if team needs reducing, you keep some people to continue the pipeline because as the cumulative number of EVs grows more superchargers will be needed.
I await the leaders explanation.
Krugerrand
Meow
That’s what YOU think should be done. It’s clearly not how Elon sees it and he has way more information than you.
He already told you why. Did you not read the various email excerpts posted here?
Back in the day I happened to write a little bit of self-modifying code. In good old GW Basic, an interpreter, which allowed for such things.
But we're not necessarily talking about that.
As a made-up thought experiment, suppose that one has a subroutine that has a bunch of parameters, passed to it by some calling program. Some of those parameters are pointers to data locations that will be returned to the calling program; some of those parameters are values or arrays or something to be operated upon by the subroutine.
The point is that a value passed to said subroutine might be some kind of analog slider. For the thought experiment, this value might be, "how aggressive should this car be on an unprotected left turn?" Said it to a low value, and the car's a pansy and waits for hours for traffic to be clear in both directions for a mile back. Set it to a high value and the Car Risks Its Life And The Lives Of Innocent Bystanders. The subroutine might check this value and make sure it's within a safe range. But, having said that, a varying value, set at some nominal value at compile time, but allowed to float based upon "X", where "X" might be based upon map data.. or the car's history in some way.
Calling this kind of process, "Self modifying code" isn't quite right. But it could alter the behavior of the car.
FWIW, I've spent more hours digging through highly stable network clock nodes, both in hardware and software, than I can easily remember. One of the characteristics of such nodes is a concept called, "Holdover", which is used to set the frequency of a node when all input references are lost. When one first powers up a node, the holdover value is set to something nominal, but is then (during initialization) cranked to accommodate offsets in hardware reference clocks (which might be stable, but not accurate), gains in VCOX types devices (which are subject to manufacturing variations), and such like. Telecom hardware is full of adjustments like this; some SDH gear with which I'm familiar might have a dozen or so control loops that minimize error rates and such, all of which get adjusted initially, and might be kicked into "fast adjustment" modes under the right circumstances. (And how that interacts with slewing system clocks is what keeps mixed signal engineers up at night.)
None of this is exactly new technology; we're talking multiple decades, here. And we're also talking checksummed code. But the effect of all this is different behavior over time. There's no particular reason to think that the FSD code base doesn't have loops like this. Or that some of the NN weights might be designated for these kinds of control loops.
Now, as to whether Tesla actually has stuff like this baked into the FSD software: Who knows? But reports from the field (that is, users) hint that that might be the case.
20,000 employees at $100,000 cost per employee is $2 billion in savings.
That buys a lot of computing.
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Looking at the present stock price some are taking your point C. Congrats, you are a Tesla stock analyst savant.
A stockholder, asking why at the Church of Elon does not make one a heretic.
To others-
Regarding the layoff news, currently, it is without context. A lot of institutional knowledge just walked out the door and yes that matters. I am also long in Boeing, and it is finding out quickly that experienced workers matter. Some are rumoring that a Super Charger sale may be in the works. Maybe, who knows? Or The Super Charger network and expansion is plug and play and could be run more efficiently with a smaller team.
On the flip side, the headcount at Tesla is a little high, so some pruning is in order.
My only thought on letting all the supercharging engineers go is that Elon is focusing on the Wiferon induction charging tech acquired in Sept 2023. In hindsight, this could seem rather obvious if FSD is solved soon'ish (6 to 12 months).
Also, I'm super bummed about Daniel Ho as we worked together and it was a joy to see him in the Tesla video for Highland. I'm sure he'll land a great role somewhere!
Also, I'm super bummed about Daniel Ho as we worked together and it was a joy to see him in the Tesla video for Highland. I'm sure he'll land a great role somewhere!
I've been extremely interested in Supercharger developments over past several months. I have been scrubbing some data and built my own Supercharger Report which I've refreshed daily.
As of today, we have 6,304 locations with 58,000 stalls around the world.
Asia Pacific: 2,620 locations, 15,440 stalls.
Europe: 1,186 locations, 14,729 stalls.
North America: 2,498 locations, 27,831 stalls.
Based on this, I think that with the latest developments, SC development/deployment paths need to be modified.
Perhaps Elon figured out that there is no need for 500 folks doing the work. Me thinks that the initial SC stage is long past. There are things coming that only Elon and his crew know.
In any case, see the maps. The next phase need to be different now and Elon is doing it again.
As of today, we have 6,304 locations with 58,000 stalls around the world.
Asia Pacific: 2,620 locations, 15,440 stalls.
Europe: 1,186 locations, 14,729 stalls.
North America: 2,498 locations, 27,831 stalls.
Based on this, I think that with the latest developments, SC development/deployment paths need to be modified.
Perhaps Elon figured out that there is no need for 500 folks doing the work. Me thinks that the initial SC stage is long past. There are things coming that only Elon and his crew know.
In any case, see the maps. The next phase need to be different now and Elon is doing it again.
MartinAustin
Active Member
New theory, what if Buffalo Plant has been whispering UAW with Mr. Fain? We would not know if this is the reason as that would be illegal. I'm also seeing Buffalo on their radar as having 1,808 employees - so <1/3 (or it's old data, as IDK).
Recall a year ago, something similar happened with this factory. Also consider China ramp, margins, maybe Buffalo is no longer needed ATM. So, move their equipment to Nevada or Texas, and bring in the Robots? Maybe.
FYI, this story is ~ 1 Year Old.
And this one's interesting, only 2 months old (but I don't have access to read the story).
Recall a year ago, something similar happened with this factory. Also consider China ramp, margins, maybe Buffalo is no longer needed ATM. So, move their equipment to Nevada or Texas, and bring in the Robots? Maybe.
FYI, this story is ~ 1 Year Old.
And this one's interesting, only 2 months old (but I don't have access to read the story).
Would the Drive-in restaurant SuperCharger under construction in LA be under this team? Who oversees the SC construction at the Buffalo plant?
Remember, Elon is playing 4D chess here. If everyone can use NACS, you have no advantage with your brand of EVs, nor with your EV charging so if it's bad, it's bad for every EV car owner and really, who cares? It's all the same stuff. Who cares how great charging will be when you can be driven around with the fully autonomous RT so you won't even need a car now. /s
It's all about AI/RT/FSD now.
I believe Tesla has received tax breaks tied to employment numbers. To move out of Buffalo may require a check from Tesla. Not to be heartless, but long-term may be advantageous.
I would be more concerned about UAW's efforts at Fremont. Not saying the UAW has a snowball chance in Death Valley in July but the recent layoffs and staged VW win might give a tiny bit of momentum.
Here is the Europe+UK list as of 2023:
here is the US list:
All of those huge dealer groups have fairly complex accounting issues. Ones such as Penske, on both lists, have major consolidated leasing operations, in Penske's case one fo the largest commercial vehicle lessors in the world.
Where the problems of understanding dealer margins become clear is in the major collision repair, short term leasing/renting, warranty repair, service etc all are artfully managed to disclose what they want to disclose without revealing too much of OEM relationships. All of those dealership groups, on both sides of the Atlantic have huge volumes of used vehicles, from off lease, trade in, manufacturer supply all of which are not included in any typical new car MSRP/'dealer cost' calculus. In real world terms the large dealers have numerous extra benefits from sales quota 'spiffs' (extra common), floor planning incentives, equipment and facility finance, including subsidies.
All that accumulates to increase the cost of a dealer distribution system. The net of all that makes new car MSRP/'dealer cost' an entirely managed, financially insignificant, component of large dealer profitability.
Because Tesla has no dealers their actual distribution costs are probably about half that of typical OEM.
OTOH Tesla accounting recognizes a sale only on final delivery with payment in full. Other OEM's tend to recognize a sale when accounting transfer to a dealer/distributor happens (most often when shipped from a factory). That also means Tesla inventory levels include both OEM and dealer inventory so there si an apples to oranges comparison. Since in some cases OEM's also report dealer inventory that tends to distort actual inventory cost dynamics.
All this becomes very complex and generalizations are fraught because each is different. VAG, for example, owns some dealers that also serve as handy ways to solve sales issues. Not too long ago they allegedly sold large number of otherwise unsalable ID3 to their own dealers, so reported sales, even though it was actually to themselves. That sort of 'stuffing' long ago had Buick Reatta, which was virtually unsalable, 'sold' to Alamo Rent-a-Car, with "favorable terms". It was easier when a former GM executive ran the company, and GM mostly financed the company at the time.
These and countless other examples demonstrate the strange and often symbiotic relationship between OEM's and Dealers. After all the gimmicky accounting and incentives ar counted it's fair to say that dealer distraction costs most OEM's somewhere around 20-30% of gross sales with variation between countries, brands and models.
Some, like Geely have approached this by having dealers, where permitted, on fixed sales commissions of 6-8% plus pre-designated warranty fees, and then retain title themselves until customer delivery.while allowing used cars and out-of-warranty to be anything they wish. That has, in such countries, tended to help sell BEV's, especially. The side benefit is that they dictate service intervals to allow dealers more income, even when BEV services are not really necessary. Customers don't know that.
And on it goes, with more and more layers. Luckily for all of us with Tesla WYSIWYG. The sometimes irritating corollary: Tesla does not hide incentives and price changes. Every customer sees it. That allows some customers to be offended. Those might be happier if they are ripped off in secret.
Lastly: Leasing. The secret sauce of high profits and hidden costs. That is another story, Every significant dealer plays with this. Simultaneously reducing reported profits while avoiding taxes. In nearly every major country these are quite different, but have huge significance. Corporate tax rules in many countries make dealers wealthy while often masking their actual direct roles. In many large dealer groups leasing, whether openly disclosed or not, account for more than half of net profits. Tax rules nearly always allow taxable income to be far lower than it would otherwise be.
I will not further comment on Finance and Insurance (F&I) except to say a common dealer nickname in some quarters "Trash and Trinkets" T&T
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Or maybe he's already struck a deal to sell of the entire supercharger operation to Chevron, Shell or BP?
/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/23382326/VRG_Illo_STK022_K_Radtke_Musk_Tesla.jpg)
Elon Musk goes ‘absolutely hard core’ in another round of Tesla layoffs
Almost the entire Supercharger team is reportedly out.
www.theverge.com
"Tinucci was notably responsible for the rollout of Tesla’s Supercharger network during her six years at the company, including efforts to get other companies to adopt the North American Charging Standard (NACS) developed by Tesla. In his email, Musk says Tesla will still build new Superchargers and complete those already under construction."
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