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Election positioning on EVs taking shape:

(GOP looking to end all government support for EVs)

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Shocking ⬆️

In other weekend news. ~100 year difference at a car show in NH. I’ve gone to shows bringing $20MM+ cars and have never ever gotten the reception this thing does. Drove 50 people around a track and let several strangers drive it. I also hammered it on a GoKart track a number of times. Absolutely the best thing Tesla makes by a mile.

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(it's a Quest Pro VR headset)

I wonder how it feels to do jobs in VR... And will customers be allowed to do this? Could be neat to do tasks from inside and not have to do the heavy lifting all day. But what if someone controls the robot to use a gun? Should we send it to the battlefront in Ukraine and control it over VR? Control a team of bots with neuralink and be able to be much more productive? Scary future coming very fast...
 
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the range so far short of the originally teased range also were factors
The range of the production dual-motor truck is longer than the claim made at the 2019 reveal. "300+ miles" vs. 340 miles.

The short-range 250-mile trim is not in production yet (and its RL range not known yet)

I guess your problem was with the announced 500-mile range of the top trim
 
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Robotic expert Troy has something to say about Teslas robotic video.

OMG. He has deleted it. Thanks for preserving it for posterity 🙏

Troy saying that because Optimus is still being trained suggests that the SW is 0% complete seems pretty black & white way of looking at things to me

He mistook the scene where they are creating AI training videos by using VR googles and performing & recording the task from the bot’s POV. In case of FSD, they don’t have to do that because we’re doing it for Tesla by driving around in our cars!!

Other than counting cars, I don’t think this Troy has been following Tesla’s progress closely. Thankfully, counting cars will have increasingly limited utility to investors in a company that makes SAAS and robots. So he is desperately trying to branch out into other things before he’s made redundant. 🤣

Reminds me of the guy in Australia who charged a hefty sum via Patreon to track the ships that were delivering our cars. Tesla soon cut him out by providing the shipping details (for free) as part of the delivery update 🤣
 
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A reminder that Troy is a member of this board and it is against TMC policy to denigrate other members.

Perfectly fine to disagree with someone and explain why, not ok to insult them.
Agreed 100%.
But in the case of FSD/Optimus troy simply does not understand that the entire way Tesla pursued FSD/Bot changed with version 12. The end-to-end neural network approach is a fundamental shift. Its like switching from ICE to EV, or from a horse to combustion engine. He keeps insisting that timelines were wrong in the past, therefore we cannot possibly extrapolate from FSD12 without constantly referencing earlier attempts at FSD.
It also massively ignores the flood of FSD videos on X and Youtube showing intervention-free robotaxi style drives happening all the time, right now, in FSD12.

Troy is definitely well informed on car production. But thats absolutely not transferable to understanding the exponential outcomes of large scale neural network training. Increasingly, Tesla's valuation will be entirley FSD/optimus based, so counting VINs will be pretty redundant, until they are optimus VINs.
 
Some blatant bot speculation:
One of the 'issues' for the bot, is that it does not have the data that FSD has. The sheer gigatonnage of video clips amassed by millions of tesla cars provides a huge amount of data that dojo can chunk through to train the FSD network for learning how to drive in all situations and circumstances. This has been key to FSD V12 and seems to be the holy grail of getting real-world AI. However, the bot does not have this data AT ALL, and even given today's video of a dozen or so employees wearing VR headsets, its definitely not going to be enough, Unless Tesla wants to hire 50,000 bot-trainers to wear VR headsets all day, which is never going to happen.

However there is a solution.

Human neural networks learn in first and third person. We learn how to catch a ball partly by watching lots of other people catch balls, but also, most helpfully, by trying and failing, again and again and again. In many ways the first person approach is better, because you start off with way more fails (disengagements) and the data is a one-to-one mapping to our own movements.

With FSD V12, the cars are overwhelmingly learning from third hand video clips, and from observing what humans do in each situation. Almost all the data is successes, where the car did not crash. Because the real world failure condition of driving is often death, the cars cannot be left to just experiment and see what happens.

The lack of huge datasets for each task means its likely that the bot learning may have to skew towards 'try it and see' rather than 'see how its done'. In a factory carrying stuff around, the failure condition isn't too lethal, so this is acceptable, and its all on company premises anyway. As a result, I think there will be a very rapid deployment of bots to work alongside humans at the factory. You might have one person unloading trucks full of of headlights, and 4 bots trying' to help with this task, and doing it really, really badly for quite a while.

Why does this matter?

Firstly we might see a lot of bots get produced and deployed on the factory floor. Videos may leak of this. We should not get too excited. This will be for training, and will NOT be either efficient, or a sign that sales are imminent.
Secondly, that might mean there is an actual production line for bots way in advance of them being useful. It might also mean a fair bit of capital expenditure. This will be seized by the excitable as sign that 'bot production is ramping up, but it will not mean much.

IF it turns out that Texas or Fremont has 500 bots working in the factory in a years time, don't get excited. That may be just a complete clown car of rubbish bots dropping stuff and walking into doors. This is to be expected, but any leaked videos will be a FUD bonanza. Don't fall for it.
 
Do you use Superchargers? And if so, do you have to drop the trailer each time to do so?

I ask because we delayed our CyberTruck purchase for the time being and bought a lightly used Toyota Tundra largely for towing. It kinda sucks going back to ICE, but there’s no denying the convenience of gas stations virtually everywhere and not having to go through the hassle of dropping the trailer to charge. We’ll reconsider when the Supercharger network includes more pull-through slots, but with the chaos in the company around Superchargers I’m not holding my breath.

As an aside, that was not the only reason we passed on the CyberTruck for now. The inflated price of the Foundation models and the range so far short of the originally teased range also were factors.
I’ve only Supercharged twice, but neither time did I have to drop the trailer. Superchargers are so underutilized here in the Midwest, I’m able to swing in and charge while still leaving access to several chargers. I stay close by so I can move the rig if need be, but so far it hasn’t been a problem. And people seem to be more than willing to accommodate me. At my first stop in Richmond IN Thursday, I was there for about 45 minutes and talked to 20-30 people. I only needed to charge for about 15 minutes, but I couldn’t get away because of all the people! It was nuts!!
 
Would you accord the same privileges to GoJo, kalodny and the clan ?
Just asking for a friend .
So, join this forum. Then you can floss manure all day long as protected type. Check.

Troy has been a member of this forum for a decade, and has provided a lot of valuable content.

No issues whatsoever with people disagreeing with other members.

Gojo & kalodny, even if they were or became members, require no name calling to point out the strength or weaknesses of their arguments.
 
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Election positioning on EVs taking shape:

(GOP looking to end all government support for EVs)

View attachment 1044638
Again?? Still this? Sigh...how ironic as I was just rewatching this Limiting Factor vid on sodium-ion batteries and Shirley says China was actually learning from us (USA) in 2005, but look at us now...what a joke.
Starts at 16:40 mark:

 
Election positioning on EVs taking shape:

(GOP looking to end all government support for EVs)

View attachment 1044638
Sounds like Bernie Sanders. Short sighted attempt to appeal to selfish greed and social envy plus a dose of right wing fear of somebody taking from you. Strategically this would cement Chinas gaining of the upper hand in electrification and the economic advantaged that come with it. If it were not for Tesla, the US carmakers wouldn't even pretend to try to compete.
/rant off
Not much impact on Tesla, but damaging to the US for sure, holding back and yielding innovation to others. 'Hybrids' lol
 
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