You obviously haven’t read the book. It’s not regressive since under the proposal, everyone would get a rebate check for sales tax paid by the family on purchases up to the poverty level of income. In effect lowest income families would be paying zero taxes. I knew one of the authors before he became a congressman. (He was my dentist.)
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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable
- Thread starter AudubonB
- Start date
Haha yeah, everything is surprising when you literally have zero internal data like Elon. He must be loling at everyone on X trying to tell him he is wrong and a moron. When did everyone thinks they are better at running a company without any information when they don't even know how basic finances work while having full access to their own bank account?Going through Troy’s timeline, one wonders if he is a market researcher, IRA credit expert, battery materials expert, automation expert, CEO, China auto expert & Nostradamus rolled into one?
Asking for a friend.. but I will leave this here
He didn't invest in Microsoft for decades and still did ok. His approach is to wait til FSD is somewhat sorted before buying.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
I literally cited that element as one of the ways that is required to mitigate the regressive nature. It's not the ONLY one either- thus isn't not nearly as simple as many proponents make out- further that rebate would represent the single largest entitlement program ever, and effectively be welfare for the rich.
If you provide that rebate to EVERYONE you're effectively cutting taxes on the rich
While leaving the poor in the same situation.
And largely shifting the tax burden coming off the rich to the middle class.
Numerous studies have found same- this includes the Bush-created Advisory Panel on Federal Tax Reform and others such as:
In any event, we're getting wildly off topic here so feel free to move further discussion to DMs or here:
Robotic expert Troy has something to say about Teslas robotic video.Going through Troy’s timeline, one wonders if he is a market researcher, IRA credit expert, battery materials expert, automation expert, CEO, China auto expert & Nostradamus rolled into one?
Asking for a friend.. but I will leave this here
It’s impressive how someone pretty good at understanding one thing can be stupendously awful at understanding another and not even have the slightest awareness of it.
Well, I keep harping on battery battery battery and Troy at least has a viable and useful explanation and EM is not saying anything. Systems hate vacuums and the lack of information from the investor management team at Tesla allows space for speculation. At least Troy has some sense about things and is often spot on. Unlike many posters here. Could 4680 weakness lead to cutting the SC team? I had not put that together but why not, good as any reason I've heard.
Tesla does have some history of staging things, remember summoning in a parking lot, etc etc etc.
It doesn't contradict what Troy is saying. It also doesn't mean it's not impressive. I don't know why people only think in black & white when actually everything is in a gray area. Yes, the robot learned the moves from a human, that's pretty much how a human employed to do the job would do it as well, so no problem there. But it doesn't mean it understands the context in which it is operating, what is doing or why it's doing it. If it would, it would be able to simply walk to another station and do another job. Or do it from right to left instead of left to right. And so on.
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Move to Freetrade in the uk. Much cheaper than HL and lets you vote.
Waiting4M3
Active Member
Troy saying that because Optimus is still being trained suggests that the SW is 0% complete seems pretty black & white way of looking at things to me
Troy saying "you can see that every move the Optimus Robot makes is controlled by a human." is 100% contradicted by "this is fully autonomous (no human in the loop anywhere)"
He deleted that tweet
Right, Troy basically confirmed his statement posted on this thread was incorrect. Other statements afterward may be less so, but those have not been entered into the discussion...
Todd Burch
14-Year Member
PSA: If you have TSLA shares in multiple accounts your broker may have sent you multiple emails to vote for each account. But those emails may look nearly identical and you might not realize that you received 3 at the same instant like I did. I almost only voted with <3% of my shares.
So I just looked this up. The human hand has 27 degrees of freedom. Soon Optimus will have 22!
I'm guessing that there is 1 missing from each finger.
I hear a few people misunderstanding what Tesla and Elon are saying. In ER Elon said they aim to do useful work in the factory in the end of 2024. In this video the show the bot "useful" work in the factory now. Tweets confirm that multiple bots are doing "useful" work in the factory.
So what do they mean? Elon means useful=does the job better than a human. Better=cheaper and/or more reliable.
In the video they do "useful" work, ie they do an actual task that is "useful". But currently they need so many engineers/workers monitoring it that it costs more than just having a worker. Thus it's not useful yet. They hope to get there later this year.
The importance of this is that they are rapidly moving towards doing useful work. The first few bots will have cost hundreds of millions and save them hundreds of thousands, thus be terrible value. But once they scale, this cost is shared with many bots. The main importance is the speed of learning new jobs that is rapidly improving.
Current they are going working on getting from doing 0 to doing 1 useful job. This is a huge effort. Then they will use the results and learnings from this to go from 1 to 10 useful jobs. Then from 10 to 100. Each step the time it takes to adding an additional job will be going down. Eventually it will come to the point where a human only needs to demo the task once or some tasks will not even need to be demoed, the bot will just figure it out.
The impressive part here was imo that a single neural network was sorting all the batteries without any step by step guidance. It's a very long time horizon task. The normal way would have been having another stack counting the batteries and saying where each should go and the neural network doing this. Not the entire task done end2end.
For the navigation, I wonder if the neural network has gotten a path in a map and is autonomously following this path. I wonder if they have some positioning algorithm running to position itself in the map. Or if it was just walking in a circle forever as a task.
My guess is that they train one neural network to do all tasks and have some way to input which task is to be performed currently. If this is text based or just a number from a list of tasks would be interesting to know...
So what do they mean? Elon means useful=does the job better than a human. Better=cheaper and/or more reliable.
In the video they do "useful" work, ie they do an actual task that is "useful". But currently they need so many engineers/workers monitoring it that it costs more than just having a worker. Thus it's not useful yet. They hope to get there later this year.
The importance of this is that they are rapidly moving towards doing useful work. The first few bots will have cost hundreds of millions and save them hundreds of thousands, thus be terrible value. But once they scale, this cost is shared with many bots. The main importance is the speed of learning new jobs that is rapidly improving.
Current they are going working on getting from doing 0 to doing 1 useful job. This is a huge effort. Then they will use the results and learnings from this to go from 1 to 10 useful jobs. Then from 10 to 100. Each step the time it takes to adding an additional job will be going down. Eventually it will come to the point where a human only needs to demo the task once or some tasks will not even need to be demoed, the bot will just figure it out.
The impressive part here was imo that a single neural network was sorting all the batteries without any step by step guidance. It's a very long time horizon task. The normal way would have been having another stack counting the batteries and saying where each should go and the neural network doing this. Not the entire task done end2end.
For the navigation, I wonder if the neural network has gotten a path in a map and is autonomously following this path. I wonder if they have some positioning algorithm running to position itself in the map. Or if it was just walking in a circle forever as a task.
My guess is that they train one neural network to do all tasks and have some way to input which task is to be performed currently. If this is text based or just a number from a list of tasks would be interesting to know...
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