Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[MTL_HABS1909]

So Ford cuts 12000 jobs and their stock is up premarket?!?!? Yet when Tesla cut a few thousand it was all doom and gloom.....

Ford to cut 12,000 jobs in Europe as part of restructuring

 

[Chocochip]

And then there was Audi as well with the e-tron press junket in Abu Dhabi - they even flew in journalists and Youtubers from my country, admittedly not a huge market for luxury SUVs.

Unfortunately I can only agree to the above and add some more first hand experience - as long as we can keep things anonymous here.

I`ve been contributing to a local EV site for almost 2 years now, written over 250 articles. We are a small site compared to the likes of CleanTechnica, Electrek and others, but have a name on the local market among enthusiasts. Yet, we struggle to get cars for test drives and often have to resort to borrowing from owners as we used to write what I would consider proper reviews and often honest criticism ("tough love") on what certain car companies were doing on the ICE front (Dieselgate) or EVs (promises of "2 years now" with no accountability or questioning by jurnos).

Recently 2 of my articles were thrown back as the owner of the site was concerned we could lose the only 2 companies who were considering giving us test cars and inviting us to (local) press events. I also had to tone down a review that I felt was pretty balanced but did point out some flaws and issues on the car end its ecosystem that I haven`t read about elsewhere.

I was actually close to parting ways with the site, but later reconsidered, so I could continue fighting the FUD on EVs and Tesla - I`ll just not touch topics where I feel like I could not get my points out.

Unfortunately "access" is just as hot a currency as a luxury weekend for a "review" or actual advertising dollars. You keep writing critical stuff, call us out on our years of EV promises and you can go and borrow a car from a buyer for review 6 months after everyone else has published their articles. Good luck with that and your little site.

As much as he may be disliked for some of his editorial choices by some of the forum members, I feel it would be helpful if @FredLambert would offer his take on this, based on his interactions with the OEMs (large and small). Electrek has done a whole bunch of reviews of new models in the past few years, and they've been invited to (or have attended) most major events in the EV space, so his personal experience would be relevant.

 

[Antares Nebula]

Latest video on Tesla Safety. In depth and fascinating!
(And made by a gun-toting conservative, no less.)

Why Tesla Model 3 Is The Safest Car On The Planet (Video) | CleanTechnica

 

[Chocochip]

So Ford cuts 12000 jobs and their stock is up premarket?!?!? Yet when Tesla cut a few thousand it was all doom and gloom.....

Ford to cut 12,000 jobs in Europe as part of restructuring

Well, obviously! It's right there in the title: large OEMs are "restructuring". Conversely, Tesla is clearly preparing to file for all the Chapters at the same time, and the C-suite is abandoning the sinking ship! OMG, educate yourself!

 

[EVNow]

It's also worth noting that a throttled (or cadence sensor-only pedal-assist) e-bike would blow the Model 3 completely out of the water on electrical efficiency, and if the rider isn't putting significant input into it, the carbon footprint will similarly blow the Model 3 out of the water. (I'd say that this is a good argument against policies that prohibit e-bikes in general, or that require pedal assist, due to the massive carbon footprint reduction that e-bikes enable.)

I believe the most carbon efficient transport is ebike + pedal, when eating local, organic food.

 

[AlexS]

So Ford cuts 12000 jobs and their stock is up premarket?!?!? Yet when Tesla cut a few thousand it was all doom and gloom.....

Ford to cut 12,000 jobs in Europe as part of restructuring

it's because TSLA is Short & Distort stock

 

[mrdoubleb]

I believe the most carbon efficient transport is ebike + pedal, when eating local, organic food.

Depends on how much methane you release as a result.

 

[Driver Dave]

Still amazed that Tesla has a future defining product in the M3, a huge moat established in the Supercharger network, autonomous driving dominance in Tesla hardware+software+fleet data, and their cars so fun they are running video games (note: I could go on) - and yet, the FUD smothers the stock.

At some point, there is going to be a pop, and it will be a very big one.

There will be pop.

 

[Silent Ludicrosy]

Try making a robot that can do anything a human can do within a power budget of 100W.

“Ok” -Elon

*This post is not a claim that FSD computer can do everything a human can, just interesting that its power budget is 100W

 

[Swampgator]

“Ok” -Elon
View attachment 423832

*This post is not a claim that FSD computer can do everything a human can, just interesting that its power budget is 100W

It does not really use only 100w. That is just the computer. The sensors use energy, the servos that control the steering and accelerator use energy.
Interestingly, a human at rest produces about 100w of energy output. Will your body be the battery of the future? - ExtremeTech

 

[EVNow]

Biological systems are much more energy efficient than robotic systems, so that idea will move us in the wrong direction. A male human needs 2500 kcalories per day which is 2900 Wh per day, or slightly over 100W. Try making a robot that can do anything a human can do within a power budget of 100W.

How many billion years do we have ?

 

[SteveG3]

Still amazed that Tesla has a future defining product in the M3, a huge moat established in the Supercharger network, autonomous driving dominance in Tesla hardware+software+fleet data, and their cars so fun they are running video games (note: I could go on) - and yet, the FUD smothers the stock.

At some point, there is going to be a pop, and it will be a very big one.

There will be pop.

Pretty sure the scale of the misinformation campaign,

- in percent of the media participating
- dearth of mass market media calling out blatant misinformation by peers
- years of duration at immense intensity

and,

- drift to nakedly aggressive falsehoods given all of the above

dwarfs anything previously aimed at a specific company before. Others have faced intense fire, but, for merely weeks, or, years of fire, but, amid mixed coverage, but, the combination involving Tesla seems unprecedented.

I think this is a reflection of,

- the scale of the fossil fuel economy’s potential loss of revenues with the changes Tesla can catalyze

- the lack of options for incumbents to compete in product without taking on large existential risk. with competing on product seen as off the table, energy had turned towards ‘smearing,’

- the greatly intensified move from journalism to paid programming over the past few decades

 

[mrmage]

Noticed this job posting for a Tesla engineering position. In addition to the relevant degree, requirements include multiple start ups, 5 years manufacturing/development experience, and extensive project management.

For an *entry* level position?!

If that isn’t a mistake, Tesla’s engineering group must be filled with mini-Musks.

https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/view/manufacturing-engineer-battery-cell-at-tesla-1336582682/

 

[Huskyf]

Any new why TSLA is UP 221.57 +1.00%

 

[CyberDutchie]

This table posted by @Lycanthrope captures the 2018 increase in CO₂ emissions very well:

Note how FCA's emissions increased from 120.1 g/km to 125.3 g/km - a 4.3% increase. Only Nissan managed a meaningful reduction of -2.6% - and they are what FCA had in mind when they tried to merge with Renault.

Penalties start at 90 g/km, and most carmakers are very, very far away from that threshold.

The CO₂ pooling agreement with Tesla is going to be very valuable to FCA in the years to come: the EU penalty is €95 per g/km per vehicle, resulting in ZEV credits earned per Tesla vehicle sold in the EU of €10,500, with up to €21,000 per Tesla car for the first 30k-50k units sold according to this previous estimate by @Prunesquallor.

I.e. if FCA and Tesla are sharing the EU ZEV credit benefits 50%/50%, then Tesla earns about €10,500 for the first ~37k Teslas sold next year (2020), and €5,250 for every car in addition to that. (With a taper and different limits for 2021 and 2022.)

So if we pessimistically take about 25k Teslas delivered in Europe per quarter in 2020, that's 100k Teslas for 2020, 37k*€10,500 + 63k*€5,250 = €719,250,000, or about $812m per year at the current exchange rate. For every additional 10k units more delivered in Europe it's an incremental income of about +$52.5m.

That prototype Model X nose now looks very funny. I remember well how shocked everyone was at the reveal of the Model X.

 

[jerry33]

How many billion years do we have ?

IIRC 2.5. However, we really have a lot less than that because once the moon finally escapes earth's gravity it will be game over.

 

[Fact Checking]

Any new why TSLA is UP 221.57 +1.00%

Weird price action indeed, which doesn't correlate with any macro news event either in the U.S., European or global space. It's also in contrast with the capping of yesterday and early today.

I.e. it seems to be an entirely Tesla specific price move.

 

[InDaClub]

So Ford cuts 12000 jobs and their stock is up premarket?!?!? Yet when Tesla cut a few thousand it was all doom and gloom.....

Ford to cut 12,000 jobs in Europe as part of restructuring

Yes, that's 20% of its European workforce.

Ford slashes 20% of European workforce, reveals future as leaner operation

 

[jerry33]

Weird price action indeed, which doesn't correlate with any macro news event either in the U.S., European or global space. It's also in contrast with the capping of yesterday and early today.

I.e. it seems to be an entirely Tesla specific price move.

It's not me. I'm expecting a new shipment of dry powder in a few days.

 

[KarenRei]

Any new why TSLA is UP 221.57 +1.00%

My usual response to Tesla's inexplicable stock movements is, "Because Tesla."