Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[JRP3]

Walmart has been a customer for 8 or so years I believe as well.

That's why this is significant. A long time customer is pissed off.

 

[JRP3]

Double pedantic: The drive waveform is likely not a sinusoid. AC induction types must have a sinusoidal AC field to work. BLDC motors are three phase commutated also, but are not AC.

Triple pedantic: All motors run on an alternating current at some point Commutation creates an alternating current.

 

[Carl Raymond]

This bears repeating on the strategic level:

You can’t be an ICE company and be a BEV company at the same time.

Completely different technologies, completely different supply chains. Completely different capital investments required to scale.

ICE companies will have to stop producing ICE and have to commit *completely* to electric in order to compete with Tesla and other full BEV companies.

If not, they disappear and useful assets get absorbed by buyers at cut rate prices.

This goes for utilities as well. The hard data is accumulating on distributed batteries and solar.

Fossil fuel demand (of any type) will just simply drop off a cliff as the infrastructure becomes plug and play electric with our current poles and wires.

Now with that, who’s strategy would you rather follow in 20 years? Ford & Buffet utilities or Tesla Motors &Tesla Energy?

The grille itself (preferred by ICE makers on their EVs for brand continuity) will prove to be a liability as the stigma attached to tailpipes grows.
People will want an EV that doesn't look like an ICEV.
Already I'm seeing more models masking the tailpipe, hiding it within the rear bumper design.

 

[MarcusMaximus]

Don't get the fuss about it, the original post said "likely 2020 if you consider Elon time". Probability statement rather than factual, and fair enough, given all the FSD and auto summon history. Even "likely 2021, given..." would be a statement I could support to some extend.

No, it was edited after the fact to say that. The original comment just gave the link and said the price change was coming in 2020

 

[scaesare]

That was the edited 15 minute later version. Check the early replies to see the original post.



Double pedantic: The drive waveform is likely not a sinusoid. AC induction types must have a sinusoidal AC field to work. BLDC motors are three phase commutated also, but are not AC.(can be trapezoidal drive)

Also, (going to the post you replied to) the rotor is coaxially cooled, however on an AC induction motor, the rotor has a chunk of current flowing through it to generate the field the stator acts against, that's what heats it up.

Pedantic*3: Non-sinusoidal waveforms that cross the zero axis are still AC.

 

[Foghat]

That's why this is significant. A long time customer is pissed off.

It’s the fact that we don’t have Tesla side or a balanced reporting on this, along with the long history of outright bias reporting on Tesla that I have concern with how reactions at the moment are playing out.

We have the history of Tesla solar performance and it’s not indicate of this being common. I’m talking over 13 years of the companies existence.

So I don’t currently have concern that this demonstrates future performance of Tesla Energy as a business.

If this turns out to be proven Tesla’s responsibility for damages, then they have to pay up.

But to play into media drama as if this is a game changer, when things far far worse occur from conventional traditional utilities and the amount of damages to life and property they incur on a yearly basis (and get no press or widespread outrage)is the same as seeing one Tesla fire as the same as 100s of thousands of ICE car fires which get a tenth of the same press.

 

[Zaxxon]

Pedantic*3: Non-sinusoidal waves from that cross the zero axis are still AC.

If you want to go back far enough, all motors (and engines) are powered by nuclear fusion.

 

[Foghat]

The grille itself (preferred by ICE makers on their EVs for brand continuity) will prove to be a liability as the stigma attached to tailpipes grows.
People will want an EV that doesn't look like an ICEV.
Already I'm seeing more models masking the tailpipe, hiding it within the rear bumper design.

What do they say, form follows function?

 

[Singuy]

If all of those things are true where was the local code inspector in all of these places? Was it up to code or not?

Yup code are

That's why this is significant. A long time customer is pissed off.

Rest assure anyone who used Tesla solar with a burning roof would be pissed off and home insurance would refuse to insure any house with Tesla solar.

So instead of jumping into conclusion, we need to hear a response from Tesla.

 

[JRP3]

If you want to go back far enough, all motors (and engines) are powered by nuclear fusion.

 

[JRP3]

long history of outright bias reporting

But to play into media drama

I'm simply reacting to the data in the filed complaint. No media bias or drama involved.

 

[mongo]

Pedantic*3: Non-sinusoidal waveforms that cross the zero axis are still AC.

Yah, techincally AC only requires the reversal of current. I purposely did not bring that up for debate since it doesn't matter.

Triple pedantic: All motors run on an alternating current at some point Commutation creates an alternating current.

Quad-pedantic
Au contrair, a switched reluctance can be run unipolar. Same with stepper motors.

Unipolar stepper:
Unipolar Stepper Motor vs Bipolar Stepper Motors
https://www.circuitspecialists.com/blog/unipolar-stepper-motor-vs-bipolar-stepper-motors/
SR:
Switched reluctance motor - Wikipedia

A normal brushed DC is also non-AC (unless you view it from the point of view of a rotor coil, in which case one could make a dual row commutator that only drives the coils in one direction)

 

[EVNow]

If it's just Enhanced Summon and some stop sign/light recognition, I don't think it's going to motivate institutionals to start buying in again. There's got to be a lot more than that to show they are ahead. Perhaps the shares could temporarily trade on the news, but I don't see it being supported on just that alone.

When City NOA releases and people can drive their cars all over US - like Waymo drives in just one suburb of Phoenix, hopefully Wall St will wake up.

 

[scaesare]

Because, if you’re a fan, you’ll simply applaud every decision made by the management and find ways to justify even poor or wrong choices. Simply because you admire the mission or you love the product or whatever. And that’s ok, if not completely reasonable.

But if you’re an investor, it would make sense to push the company to make the right decision, and you’d be concerned of the risk of alienating current or potential customers. And you’d pay extra close attention to things that are possibly not quite right, rather than brush them off and blame the “haterz”. Sure, there are a lot of vested interests that want to see Tesla fail, but that doesn’t mean that every complaint about the way Tesla does business is an attempt to sabotage it somehow and should therefore be ignored.

<SNIP>

I don't think it's mutually exclusive. I want the company to succeed in either case. If I see a move/policy that jeopardizes that, I don't blindly yell "Rah Rah!" anyway.

I was a fan of the company prior to investing. There are decisions I disagreed with, and voiced. One of them being an open letter to Elon in the early days of the Model S (which he replied to and changed a company policy as a result of).

I subsequently became an investor. I still consider myself a fan. And there are still things I disagree with publicly. I just tweeted Elon the other day about something I think they should change.​

 

[scaesare]

Yah, techincally AC only requires the reversal of current. I purposely did not bring that up for debate since it doesn't matter.

I am disappoint in you Mongo:

BLDC motors are three phase commutated also, but are not AC.(can be trapezoidal drive)

 

[Antares Nebula]

Well if Wal-Mart is suing Tesla, then logic dictates that the Boring Company should sue Apple:

Apple’s Morning Show logo looks like the one for Elon Musk’s Boring Company

 

[Singer3000]

Ok. I can’t say anything definitely, but that still sounds a lot like dot.com bubble. Only in dot.com the reason for the “New economy” was the rise of productivity made possible by internet, telecom and things related to them.

The other one that was good in 2008 was Emerging Market Decoupling Theory. Not many people now admit to having backed that one at the time. Will be interesting to see how Deflationary Boom Theory ages..

I am hedging my bets in that I'm keeping Tesla and some other disruption stocks, as well as a smallish portion of trackers. But otherwise moving to cash and bullion and awaiting the storm. Shorting Yen was one of my more profitable trades of the last decade, can't quite bring myself to go long Yen now but I am running out of ideas for value trades to be honest. Input from creative minds always welcome

 

[hacer]

But that's not 'naked short selling' - it's part of the defined mechanism to short a stock. It only becomes 'naked' if there's a "failure to deliver" - which is rare according to Ihor (who worked at the trading desk of a broker-dealer) and according to market statistics...

First off, Ihor didn't even know of the existence of FTD reports! Ihor Dusaniwsky on Twitter

Second, a naked short does not require an FTD, naked shorting is generally any violation of Rule 10(b)21 including the failure to follow Rule 203(b)(1) of regulation SHO. https://www.sec.gov/divisions/marketreg/mrfaqregsho1204.htm#targetText=Rule%20203(b)(1,the%20date%20delivery%20is%20due. Rule 203(b)(1) requires that a "locate" (to borrow) has been documented before entering the short sale order to the market.

Third, market makers are exempt from rule 203(b)(1) provided they are doing "bona-fide" market making. So they are, by law, allowed to do naked shorting and we all know that the SEC will never question any market maker's activity so they can actually do it whenever they want. Given that market makers can do it and that it makes their costs zero, the question is why would they ever bother to borrow unless they want to keep the short long term or their FTDs get out of hand? There is literally no cost, no punishment, no questions asked when they go naked, so it would actually be dumb for them to borrow the shares. Finally, when they want to short ~ 5 million shares over the course of say one hour it's actually kind of hard to organize that sort of borrow on short notice after say the SEC comes out with a juicy press release. How are you going to eat through > $30 worth of bid if you don't have the shares lined up to do it? Go naked! That's how.

The real beauty is how an FTD works: the seller actually collects the buyer's money, but the buyer gets a book keeping entry of a "borrowed share" from the NSCC which it supposedly "borrows" from the DTC (the company's transfer agent) who always has ready stock because they posses (but don't have title to) all of the companies shares. So yeah, that's not actually counterfeit stock, it's just two different people having title to the same shares of stock and only the DTC and NSCC actually know it.

It's pretty certain (to me) that during November '18 to January '19 the NSCC was concealing a huge amount of naked shorts, probably by "borrowing" the DTC's shares without letting the DTC know lol! During that whole 3 month period TSLA supposedly had no failures to deliver. None. There aren't any other examples of any stocks having over $1 billion market cap with even a one month period with zero FTDs over the whole time for which the FTD reports are available, yet it happened to TSLA for three whole months! Three months that had astonishingly large volume, volatility and unprecedented options trading, but somehow not one single share was FTD.

Yup, no such thing as naked short selling, no siree.

 

[brian45011]

We're the WMT installations bundled in a VIE?

These kind of contractual disputes are often settled by offering deep discounts on future purchases of the Defendant's products

 

[Mars ☰mperor]

Well if Wal-Mart is suing Tesla, then logic dictates that the Boring Company should sue Apple:

Apple’s Morning Show logo looks like the one for Elon Musk’s Boring Company

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Yeah I had the exact same thought when I saw Apple’s logo