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Great that we are getting a GF and Engineering Center in Germany.

I am sure Tesla will attract a lot of talented engineers. Tesla is the cool place to work for if you studied auto engineering at the university. Berlin is one of the most interesting cities in Germany. The city center is about 45 minutes away from the Grünheide, either by car or by train.

As the other companies try to catch up, Tesla will be able to attract the best talent.

Watch out: For Germans Tesla is now a real car company, not a mere silicon valley startup. Great times.
 
Looks like a muddy field to me. It'll never be built.

/s

J/k. Thanks for the helpful first post, and welcome to TMC.

It probably wont. Seriously, the Germans will probably spend a few hours leveling a light switch while I know for a fact the Chinese probably skipped the light switch covers and moved on. I had Chinese contracts worked on my house(old school mainlanders) and they give very little F to those kind of details. Many things in my house are misaligned..but they were fast and cheap at least.
 
Hi guys, this is my first post. I have only been reading this forum. But since I live in Berlin and work as a policy advisor for transport in the Berlin state parliament I thought I could share some information.
The GF4 seems to be build in this location: Google Maps (Grünheide). At least that's what this local newspaper is reporting: In Grünheide im Landkreis Oder-Spree: Elon Musk will Tesla-Werk in Brandenburg bauen - Brandenburg - Startseite

Danke. Willkommen bei TMC! :)
 

I mean, does she think GF3 is not a real thing? This is literally me right now:

Jackie-Chan-WTF.jpg
 
It probably wont. Seriously, the Germans will probably spend a few hours leveling a light switch while I know for a fact the Chinese probably skipped the light switch covers and moved on. I had Chinese contracts worked on my house(old school mainlanders) and they give very little F to those kind of details. Many things in my house are misaligned..but they were fast and cheap at least.
Yesterday two posters were willing to bet me that the hyper efficient germans would have it built lickity split. As for me ..I've experienced lots of good german engineering but fast is not the word I've used. We'll see. Hope it does go quickly i'm just a bit of a cynic.
 
My guess, they‘ll announce a raise of another ~5 Bill. to fund GF4 and 2TW Battery production. All in.
Yeah, Elon literally said that Tesla is now 'self-funding' less than 3 weeks ago on the 2019Q3 conference call. Do you really think he meant 'except for new factories'? :rolleyes:

Tesla doesn't need new funding to build Gigafactory Europe. The FCA payments alone at 2b Euro will fund the factory buildout to 1st production over the next 2 years. I expect the German Federal Government and the State of Brandenburg will kick in sufficient tax deferments and incentives to soften the financial bump of commissioning the new factory. Otherwise Elon wouldn't be building there, would he?

Cheers!
 
Yesterday two posters were willing to bet me that the hyper efficient germans would have it built lickity split. As for me ..I've experienced lots of good german engineering but fast is not the word I've used. We'll see. Hope it does go quickly i'm just a bit of a cynic.

To me, there are two nationalities who are meticulous when it comes to details, the Germans and the Japanese. It's just not in the Chinese blood to have that kind of patience. The only Chinese I know who actually cares about details would be people from HK. The rest are the "get the work done as fast as possible and who cares about all the little things". My parents are great examples of this. Mom loves to "clean" the house and does it with great speed and also daily. But she literally use the same towel for the toilet bowl to clean the kitchen counter.
 
To me, there are two nationalities who are meticulous when it comes to details, the Germans and the Japanese. It's just not in the Chinese blood to have that kind of patience. The only Chinese I know who actually cares about details would be people from HK. The rest are the "get the work done as fast as possible and who cares about all the little things". My parents are great examples of this. Mom loves to "clean" the house and does it with great speed and also daily. But she literally use the same towel for the toilet bowl to clean the kitchen counter.
and the germans love their bureaucracy, meticulous it is too. Ah well, the engineering is simply first rate of course. Hopefully we'll see some integration that does not slow Tesla down.
 
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Yeah, to his face, with Elon right there. Isn’t there a German word for “super awkward” humor?

That was a bit surprising. I thought Elon handled it nicely. I've noticed a more friendly type of rapport being developed at least in the press between some of the German manufacturers and Elon/Tesla. I honestly believe Elon wants to see them compete and be successful as well. Apart from the question, I thought it was a nice exchange between everyone. As for Germany for a location for Giga 3, it makes so much more sense than anywhere else. Hopefully will win over some of their countrymen too being made in Germany.

Congrats Elon and Team Tesla! Glad to see them being given the recognition that I felt has been held back for some time. Hard to ignore a tidal wave coming at you. And Diess was right about emotion. As an average driver out there (not a gearhead) I've never enjoyed a car so much before.
 
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Further to the talk on Tesla options and short interest earlier, I thought I'd add a comment on how this can drive the high volatility in Tesla stock price.

Due to the very high option open interest and very high short interest in Tesla, stock prices moves can be very self fulfilling.

For example, the high open interest in call options will be mostly delta hedged by market makers – requiring them to buy stock to hedge the call options they’ve sold. But as the stock goes up and more call options get closer to the money, delta increases and market makers have to buy more shares to maintain the hedge on their options – and these purchases act to drive the price up further.

At the same time, the higher share prices increase the $ size of the Tesla short position – therefore they need to invest more capital to maintain the same number of shares short. Many will not choose or be able to do this, so they will reduce the number of shares they are short to keep the same $ size of the position. To do this they need to buy Tesla shares – and these purchases act to drive the price up further.

Also, if a market maker has sold puts, these will be mostly delta hedged by shorting stock. But when the stock goes up delta on the put options reduces and market makers can reduce the size of the hedge - to do this they reduce the size of their short stock position and buy shares – and these purchases act to drive the price up further.

A higher share price can also attract new investors who now have more confidence in Tesla’s future - leading to share purchases which will drive the price up further.

Higher share prices also increase staff compensation and can increase staff incentives, moral and productivity – leading to better results – which in the long run will lead to a higher share price. It can also give customers more confidence in the company’s future and make them more likely to buy the car – leading to better results – which again leads to a higher share price. A higher share price also makes it easier to raise more capital with lower dilution.

Of course, this can also all work in reverse when the share price is going down. Which is why Tesla’s enemies have been so intent on producing FUD and employing the confidence crisis short and distort strategy to damage the company.

The feedback loop between market prices and company fundamentals is called Reflexivity by the way.

Similar self fulfilling feedback loops act with Wright's Law/Moore's Law/Experience curves. Wright's Law works because companies believe it is going to work so they invest in the growth that is needed to drive the mechanisms that lead to the learning rates. This increased cumulative production volume leads to lower production costs which leads to lower prices which creates the higher demand the volume was built for which leads to investment in further growth etc.

Given this is such a powerful driver of Tesla stock price, I thought it worth trying to quantify all of these options delta hedging and short stock feedback mechanisms. The result is larger than i expected. I believe a +$10 increase in share price would require the purchase of 4.7 million Tesla shares worth $1.6bn. I think much of all stock volume every day is delta hedging related.

Full detail on all Tesla options value and delta exposure from calls, puts and converts below. These are approximations, but I think close enough.

Tesla Calls open interest:
There are call options on 69 million shares outstanding.
The current market value of all call options is $3.3bn with $0.8bn expiring this week and $2.1bn expiring within the next 3 months. $2.8bn of the calls are in the money and $0.5bn out of the money.
It will be interesting to see what call holders do with their profits. Take profit, buy stock or buy OTM calls?
Delta hedge requirement for these call options is 38 million Tesla shares, worth $13bn. So if all Tesla call were sold by market makers (most likely were) and are 100% delta hedged (market makers should be), then 38 million shares would have to be held to hedge the option position. In reality some of this is cancelled by Put options.

Tesla Puts:
There are put options on 144 million shares outstanding.
These have collapsed in price and current market value of all put options is now only $0.4bn with $0.1bn expiring within the next 3 months.
Delta hedge requirement for these put options is 5.5 million Tesla shares sold short, worth $1.9bn.

Convert hedges owned by Tesla:
Tesla bought call options and sold warrants to limit potential dilution from its 2021, 2022 and 2024 convert issuance. The value of the Tesla calls Tesla owns are currently worth $1.4bn and the Warrants it sold worth $0.6bn. For banks to delta hedge their net option exposure to Tesla from the calls & warrants would require purchasing 4 million Tesla shares.

Net delta exposure from options market.
The gross delta exposure from Calls, Puts and Convert Hedges can all be netted out – they are all likely held by the same market makers. So this is 38 million long from Call open interest, 5.5 million short from Put open interest and 4 million long from Tesla’s convert hedging transactions. This nets out at 36.6 million Tesla share long, currently worth $12.6bn.
Note that while individual market makers can delta hedge with other options rather than shares (but they mostly do shares), this is only passing on delta exposure to a different exposure. So this 37 million shares overall options market delta exposure is what is needed if everybody is 100% delta hedged. Some calls will be sold unhedged by people like Mark Spiegel etc, and some puts likely sold by Tesla retail longs, but I expect the vast majority of the market is delta hedged most of the time. So these means delta hedging accounts for ownership of towards 37 million Tesla shares currently. This is relative to 212 million total Tesla shares (180 million real shares outstanding, 32 million virtual/duplicated shares sold by shorts). Many of these market makers likely loan their long shares to shorts so they may not disclose ownership anywhere close to their real economic ownership of stock.

Convertible bonds:
Most convertible bonds will be held by funds who will delta hedge their exposure to Tesla equity. At current prices this would require selling 8.7 million Tesla shares short. So this is a large chunk of the 30 million Tesla short interest. These are held by different investors to the options open interest so can not be netted out.

Outright short equity:
Short interest is currently 32 million shares sold short or c.$11bn. About 23 million of these shares of c.$8bn are likely sold by real shorts and not from convert hedging. These 32 million short shares are shares that are now owned by 2 different long investors. The short borrowed a share from one long, promised to give it back eventually, then sold it to a new long. Two different long investors now have economic ownership of the same share so in effect the share has been duplicated, with a virtual share or repayment obligation now also trading in the market. This means there are now really 180 million real shares outstanding plus 32 million virtual shares owned by Tesla longs, or a total of 212 million shares.

What is the exposure of all of these positions to a +$10 move in Tesla share price?
For +$10 the net change in delta hedging requirement from the whole options market and from the convertible notes hedging is + 4.0 million shares or $1.4bn of Tesla stock purchases. This is an incredibly powerful feedback mechanism to drive the stock higher.
For +$10 share price the size of the Tesla short owned by real shorts will increase in $ terms. To maintain the same $ size of position Tesla short will have to buy Tesla shares to reduce the number of shares short. For $10 this would have to be 0.7 million shares.
So between the two, this is buying pressure for 4.7 million shares due to a $10 increase in share price.

What is the exposure of all of these positions to a -$10 move in Tesla share price?
For $10 the net change in delta hedging requirement from the whole options market and from the convertible notes hedging is - 4.7 million shares or $1.6bn of Tesla stock sales. This is again a powerful feedback mechanism to drive the stock lower. At the moment the mechanism is slightly more powerful in the downward direction – this is because the recent price increase has moved so many Tesla calls into the money and delta to its maximum of 1. There is more room for changing in delta with downward movements currently. This will likely even out as calls mature and people roll calls into more out of the money strikes.
For -$10 share price the size of the Tesla short owned by real shorts will reduced in $ terms. To maintain the same $ value, Tesla shorts will sell a further 0.7 million shares short.
So between the two, this is selling pressure for 5.4 million shares from a -$10 move in stock price.

Note: All these numbers are approximations and use a $345 share price and a fixed 45% volatility for all options/strikes/maturities. I don’t have a data source with volatility or option price for every option matched to open interest, and these approximations makes it much easier to make quick options pricing calculations.

@Fact Checking @hacer @Zhelko Dimic @EVNow @MFranc123 @Doggydogworld
 
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Yesterday two posters were willing to bet me that the hyper efficient germans would have it built lickity split. As for me ..I've experienced lots of good german engineering but fast is not the word I've used. We'll see. Hope it does go quickly i'm just a bit of a cynic.

Elon said GF Berlin will be operational by end of 2021.

So the Chinese are spotting the Germans over a year.
 
Given this is such a powerful driver of Tesla stock price, I thought it worth trying to quantify all of these options delta hedging and short stock feedback mechanisms. The result is larger than i expected. I believe a +$10 increase in share price would require the purchase of 4.7 million Tesla shares worth $1.6bn. I think much of all stock volume every day is delta hedging related.

Full detail on all Tesla options value and delta exposure from calls, puts and converts below. These are approximations, but I think close enough.

Tesla Calls open interest:
There are call options on 69 million shares outstanding.
The current market value of all call options is $3.3bn with $0.8bn expiring this week and $2.1bn expiring within the next 3 months. $2.8bn of the calls are in the money and $0.5bn out of the money.
It will be interesting to see what call holders do with their profits. Take profit, buy stock or buy OTM calls?
Delta hedge requirement for these call options is 38 million Tesla shares, worth $13bn. So if all Tesla call were sold by market makers (most likely were) and are 100% delta hedged (market makers should be), then 38 million shares would have to be held to hedge the option position. In reality some of this is cancelled by Put options.

Tesla Puts:
There are put options on 144 million shares outstanding.
These have collapsed in price and current market value of all put options is now only $0.4bn with $0.1bn expiring within the next 3 months.
Delta hedge requirement for these put options is 5.5 million Tesla shares sold short, worth $1.9bn.

Convert hedges owned by Tesla:
Tesla bought call options and sold warrants to limit potential dilution from its 2021, 2022 and 2024 convert issuance. The value of the Tesla calls Tesla owns are currently worth $1.4bn and the Warrants it sold worth $0.6bn. For banks to delta hedge their net option exposure to Tesla from the calls & warrants would require purchasing 4 million Tesla shares.

Net delta exposure from options market.
The gross delta exposure from Calls, Puts and Convert Hedges can all be netted out – they are all likely held by the same market makers. So this is 38 million long from Call open interest, 5.5 million short from Put open interest and 4 million long from Tesla’s convert hedging transactions. This nets out at 36.6 million Tesla share long, currently worth $12.6bn.
Note that while individual market makers can delta hedge with other options rather than shares (but they mostly do shares), this is only passing on delta exposure to a different exposure. So this 37 million shares overall options market delta exposure is what is needed if everybody is 100% delta hedged. Some calls will be sold unhedged by people like Mark Spiegel etc, and some puts likely sold by Tesla retail longs, but I expect the vast majority of the market is delta hedged most of the time. So these means delta hedging accounts for ownership of towards 37 million Tesla shares currently. This is relative to 212 million total Tesla shares (180 million real shares outstanding, 32 million virtual/duplicated shares sold by shorts). Many of these market makers likely loan their long shares to shorts so they may not disclose ownership anywhere close to their real economic ownership of stock.

Convertible bonds:
Most convertible bonds will be held by funds who will delta hedge their exposure to Tesla equity. At current prices this would require selling 8.7 million Tesla shares short. So this is a large chunk of the 30 million Tesla short interest. These are held by different investors to the options open interest so can not be netted out.

Outright short equity:
Short interest is currently 32 million shares sold short or c.$11bn. About 23 million of these shares of c.$8bn are likely sold by real shorts and not from convert hedging. These 32 million short shares are shares that are now owned by 2 different long investors. The short borrowed a share from one long, promised to give it back eventually, then sold it to a new long. Two different long investors now have economic ownership of the same share so in effect the share has been duplicated, with a virtual share or repayment obligation now also trading in the market. This means there are now really 180 million real shares outstanding plus 32 million virtual shares owned by Tesla longs, or a total of 212 million shares.

What is the exposure of all of these positions to a +$10 move in Tesla share price?
For +$10 the net change in delta hedging requirement from the whole options market and from the convertible notes hedging is + 4.0 million shares or $1.4bn of Tesla stock purchases. This is an incredibly powerful feedback mechanism to drive the stock higher.
For +$10 share price the size of the Tesla short owned by real shorts will increase in $ terms. To maintain the same $ size of position Tesla short will have to buy Tesla shares to reduce the number of shares short. For $10 this would have to be 0.7 million shares.
So between the two, this is buying pressure for 4.7 million shares due to a $10 increase in share price.

What is the exposure of all of these positions to a -$10 move in Tesla share price?
For $10 the net change in delta hedging requirement from the whole options market and from the convertible notes hedging is - 4.7 million shares or $1.6bn of Tesla stock sales. This is again a powerful feedback mechanism to drive the stock lower. At the moment the mechanism is slightly more powerful in the downward direction – this is because the recent price increase has moved so many Tesla calls into the money and delta to its maximum of 1. There is more room for changing in delta with downward movements currently. This will likely even out as calls mature and people roll calls into more out of the money strikes.
For -$10 share price the size of the Tesla short owned by real shorts will reduced in $ terms. To maintain the same $ value, Tesla shorts will sell a further 0.7 million shares short.
So between the two, this is selling pressure for 5.4 million shares from a -$10 move in stock price.

Note: All these numbers are approximations and use a $345 share price and a fixed 45% volatility for all options/strikes/maturities. I don’t have a data source with volatility or option price for every option matched to open interest, and these approximations makes it much easier to make quick options pricing calculations.

@Fact Checking @hacer @Zhelko Dimic @EVNow @MFranc123 @Doggydogworld

Extremely valuable info and much appreciated. Does 'news' (catalyst) trump this type of pressure?
 
Extremely valuable info and much appreciated. Does 'news' (catalyst) trump this type of pressure?

News should still be able to change the direction. This just means whatever direction the move, it will move further than would otherwise be the case. It reduces the amount of change in long term investors positions required for a given share price movement.