Ugh, as much as I like to needle Porsche over the Taycan's limits, this kind of thing slows down EVs in general.
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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable
- Thread starter AudubonB
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Whoa, looks like Porsche is really determined to catch up to Tesla!
First stationary EV fire: Check!
Now they only need to deliver several hundreds of thousands of units per year... but that's the easy bit!
Holy hell, if true(there's VERY little to go on here). I do immediately think of all the reports claiming Porsche's efficiency was so bad vs Tesla because Tesla supposedly cut corners on safety.
Oops....
options trader on Twitter
View attachment 512089
Just under 1% of Taycans in existence have now burned down
Will be interesting to hear about the cause.
Yesterday news in Norway rallied over a Nissan Leaf who supposedly set a house on fire. Turns out the owner was charging the 12V battery on a motorbike. And the bike started the fire.
Article says the objections will be discussed starting Mar 18. Only after this is done Tesla can get the final permit.
If the court decides that right now the final permit is not highly likely to be issued, the preliminary permit that allowed them to cut trees will not be reinstated. In that case, they´d have to wait for the final permit, which only comes after Mar 18. However, generally trees can not be cut after beginning of March due to start of the vegetation period (plus a two possible two week grace period). Therefore they´d have to wait until the end of the vegetation period in fall.
State government has said they are trying to find a way around the vegetation period limitation in case the court does not reinstate the temporary permit, but I don´t know if the court would play along.
Meanwhile, two activists have occupied trees in a fight against capitalism, the patriarchy, and also stating their solidarity with the Kurdish resistance. This is getting weirder by the day, seems like a Monty Python scene to me
... First protests were supported by right wing AFD and subsequently stopped, now these left wing protesters come in... But it seems like most people in Germany are face palming over all this and hope the theater is over soon.
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I think TSLA is still massively undervalued and there is also irrational exuberance at the same time. I.e. IIRC recall a huge number of people bought TSLA for the first time on the day TSLA went above $900. I doubt those people did not understand that within 5 years Tesla will own the ground transportation industry. They had FOMO. (I hate acronyms. I have 3 in this short note. I promise I will never do that again.)
StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
Absolutely! That's why I said you would have to be a pretty dumb "environmentalist" to conclude the world would be better off without a factory pumping out zero tailpipe emission replacements for the ICE vehicles that are a blight on our cities. Because even if you believe there should be no cars at all, stopping G4 does not help us get to that goal. It just means more ICE cars, less EV's. Because EV's absolutely do displace ICE sales.
Agreed. Reading between the lines, I think there is a reason TSLA was able to proceed with the clearing before final building permits were issued. Obviously, the factory is seen as a completely appropriate use of the land under existing law. The current legal proceedings are an example of a group using statutory requirements to throw as big of a log as possible in front of progress. All they can hope to do is delay it as I'm sure the judges will do everything in their power to clear the slate while still adhering to legal requirements.
If you ever want some confidence that Tesla is going to 5000 in 5 years, just take a look at how bad the competition is. With one or two exceptions, none of the offerings are either good looking or aerodynamic.
They are for the most part still thinking you can take an existing model of car and cram some batteries and a powertrain in it - aka the Roadster era, which btw was in 2005 (their contract with Lotus)... 15 years ago. How are they expecting to get good range with terrible drag? They either just don't care or don't understand, I'm not sure which is worse. With the Taycan, they engineered a very good coefficient of drag, and still managed to fail massively on efficiency because of their lack of powertrain and battery tech, but kudos to them for putting out a good looking aerodynamic EV which is more than you can say for pretty much everyone else.
90% of ICE auto is going bankrupt in the next 20 years... they are too bloated and stupid to survive, not to mention the anchor of dealerships, obsolete tech assets/plants/workers, pension plans and unions.
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But it wouldn't be automakers or auto coalitions locking them up, it would be CATL, LG Chem, or Panasonic.
(If they have any brains, that is.)
I think they have the scale to both afford and benefit from advanced battery and/or battery manufacturing technology.
The actual automakers (excluding Tesla) have shown zero interest in doing the batteries on their own, so I don't even understand why they're even in this conversation. It's the cell manufacturers who would compete with Tesla.
I saw that lat night, it was seriously void of any Tesla elephant in the room. FSD data volume was not even mentioned -- the most critical data that matters.
However, I did hear the guy in the office saying how safety from FSD should be compared to cars with existing safety systems (like collision avoidance systems) not simply a human driver without safety systems.
I think that argument will be their center pin on the FSD legal front. And the goal of all that related FUD might be to draw a line between FSD and everyone else's sold as assist vs driving fear of the rise of the robots. I dont think it would be difficult for them to gather publoc support.
Oh, and no mention in the clip re who has Charging infrastructure or wireless upgrades.
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In all honesty, we should probably not take advantage of this unfortunate event to poke fun at Porsche, as it's so similar to how the $TSLAQ gang attacks Tesla with every opportunity.
Butaycan't help myself...
So another noob question - is the equity raise now completely sold out or will Morgan & Goldman still try to keep the share price above $800?
Cohiba
Member
humbaba
sleeping until $7000
Thing is, where were CATL, LG Chem or Panasonic when Maxwell was trying to find someone to bid against Tesla?
The reality is that Tesla is doing a pretty good job of cornering the battery technology market and it sure looks to be the result of lack of vision. Why buy Maxwell when you are already making as many batteries as you care to and selling them at profit, using lack of supply to keep prices high?
Sure, one could argue that more supply would still allow high price setting -- and I won't disagree. But apparently the aforementioned companies do. Actions, words and all that.
There's no ambiguity. There's some *very* distinct frame components to the Taycan.
Nafnlaus on Twitter
Take a good look at that distinctive "double gap" component at the back of the roof rails. Tons of small details, and everything matches precisely - even down to the sawtooth "teeth" at the bottom.
This is a Taycan. Full stop.
Do other Porsche cars(Panamera, for example, but potentially any of their cars) not have those features? It's definitely looking likely, but I'm wary to take this from a single report on Twitter...
Oops....
options trader on Twitter
View attachment 512089
Just under 1% of Taycans in existence have now burned down
Now we are playing the same game on Porsche that others play on Tesla. Great.
Noone know why this garage burned down yet we jump to conclusions. Will this even affect TSLA?
humbaba
sleeping until $7000
I still think it is in poor taste to tweak Porsche over this and I have sympathy for the owner.
Back before the Taycan was sold there were discussions here about the claimed specs and various strategies they could use to fulfill them and consequences thereof. I don't feel like searching, but I'm reasonably certain you had posts outlining how there was a significant possibility that safety risks would be created. My concern is that this fire is just the first and that there will be more.
To me, that would be a bad scenario as it would help to cement in the public's mind that EVs are inherently dangerous and certain quarters would insist that the same happened with Tesla, but concealed by fraud.
So I hope that this fire was an outlier, but am concerned that it is simply the byproduct of an aggressive attempt to meet Tesla capabilities with inferior technology.
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