-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable
- Thread starter AudubonB
- Start date
mblakele
FSD Beta (99)
This week The Economist wrote about troubles in the Renault-Nissan alliance following the ouster of Carlos Ghosn. The article doesn't mention TSLA or EV investments, but I think it's reasonable to speculate that these management problems will delay new EVs from Renault and Nissan. As I see it that's bad for Tesla's mission, but probably good for TSLA.
A related story covered losses at Jaguar Land Rover, which may be hurting its parent company Tata Motors. This is basically another story of weak demand in China. The article doesn't mention Tesla, but could be spun to reinforce the idea that weak demand from China puts Tesla at risk. The author also speculates that JLR's Jaguar brand has not been profitable since its purchase by Tata. That could affect the future of Jaguar EVs — again probably bad for Tesla's mission but possibly good for TSLA.
Less on topic was a science and technology story about one-pedal driving and regen. It's kind of fluffy, but manages to mention Tesla and the Model 3 without saying anything negative. That's good, right?
A related story covered losses at Jaguar Land Rover, which may be hurting its parent company Tata Motors. This is basically another story of weak demand in China. The article doesn't mention Tesla, but could be spun to reinforce the idea that weak demand from China puts Tesla at risk. The author also speculates that JLR's Jaguar brand has not been profitable since its purchase by Tata. That could affect the future of Jaguar EVs — again probably bad for Tesla's mission but possibly good for TSLA.
Less on topic was a science and technology story about one-pedal driving and regen. It's kind of fluffy, but manages to mention Tesla and the Model 3 without saying anything negative. That's good, right?
EVNow
Well-Known Member
Very different - I don't think Tesla would fear loss of IP.
But MB divested from Tesla when they saw that Tesla was going to compete with them for luxury market. What changed now ?
EU politicians declared before that the €20 bn tariffs they would implement in a first step would likely NOT include US cars at first simply because the volume is too low to create enough pressure with it.
US cars are on a longer list that is considered in phase 2 but that'll just happen if all escalates.
The US Auto industry does not sell much in Europe therefore the opportunity to create pressure on the US administration to negotiate is not to be found in US Auto tariffs.There are other areas where it does hurt the US more.
I share your concern but the EU will not put tariffs on US Autos as a counter measure for US tariffs right away but try to negotiate anyway which is BTW what the US is trying to initiate.
Nevertheless if the US is doing what they say the intend to do the impact on the global economy is severe and with it stock markets may dive.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
Shows how poor Gates track record is. He couldn't figure out what was happening across the lake.
Nobody is announcing tariffs next week (hopefully!). What is expected to be announced shortly is at least the US's plans should they fail to get a satisfactory outcome in negotiations, and likely the EU's planned response to such tariffs as well. Some people are still hoping that the commerce department report will not recommend tariffs. This is IMHO highly unlikely. The expectation is that it will lay out three levels of auto and other tariffs, the highest being 25%.
The EU response list reportedly includes, among other things, a 15% tariff on EVs and EV components (aka, Tesla).
The EU response list reportedly includes, among other things, a 15% tariff on EVs and EV components (aka, Tesla).
Last edited:
Its not likely that Elon does partner with a German OEM for GF4 as it will create more disadvantages than advantages for Tesla.
Remember he said Daimler does not understand Physics and culturally, technically as well as an understanding of what needs to be done in a disruptive market is very different. There are really no assets for Tesla in a cooperation at this stage.
Selling drive trains to Daimler or maybe battery packs is very much different with partnering for GF4. That I can imagine they do if capacity allows it and with a margin that helps Tesla to accelerate their mission.
History may prove me wrong but from all what I hear from all German OEMs the likelihood to do a true partnership for instance for GF4 would be more than surprising and in may opinion a mistake that Tesla better avoids.
A picture from Jack of a typical drying oven to remove solvent from the electrode materials - 30-60 feet long, with both vacuum and heat and having to capture and distill the solvent:
View attachment 378124
He notes by contrast that the equipment to make the dry electrodes is about 4 feet long
Yes, when I did a gigafactory tour before production went live, I saw ovens like this there. I would also guess that this process step is the number one source of yield variability among cells. I would guess the dry process is more reproducible.
Have you invested in options before? You are gambling that your timing is right. Easy to miss the timing and get burned.
I don't think that the advantages you list for Tesla are worth it. It's better if Tesla learns as much as they can from GF1 and GF3 and then start building a super lean GF4 in a year by themselves and then use all the profit from that to get even further ahead. Tesla have already developed the cars and much of the manufacturing technology needed.
MB on the other hand is as you say in desperate need for help with developing and manufacturing electric cars.
Twitter steps on its own d**k once again! Gawd I hate twitter, but it doesn’t look like it’s going away anytime soon.
There is a term in the semiconductor/cellphone industry (maybe others too), "coöpetition". Qualcomm's biggest enemy was Samsung. And yet Samsung provided the fabs for about half of Q's chips (and, according to Q, stole IPR while at it).
I'm pretty sure he doesn't also have Steve Jobs face, which he happens to use as his profile picture.
@samppa
May I interest you first in a "friendly" game of cards, say 7 card, low hole wild, roll your own, with 1 eyed jacks and suicide kings also wild,
or maybe "follow the queen" or maybe "Dr Pepper" 10's ,2's wild, 4's wild and you get an extra card.
a valuable,low cost lesson, eh., oh and plenty of free shots of alcohol first for an hour or three
He apparently finds the coincidence amusing (so I'm told). But yeah, it's tasteless.
Tesla most certainly does need scrubbers or solvent recovery equipment. None of it is vented to the air.
Btw, wouldn’t this Maxwell technology acquisition shift the balance of who makes the cells into Tesla’s favor and away from Panasonic? Obviously Panasonic still owns IP in the cathode and electrolyte chemistry, but even in the chemistry, Tesla is patenting electrolyte additives. I just wonder how long Tesla will or will have to partner with Panasonic?
Artful Dodger
"Neko no me"
Hey! Get back in the LINE! Canadian steel and aluminum is a real MENACE.. LOL!
Canada as a national security threat to the United States
Why do you think the EU would target US cars and Tesla in particular? Can you give a source for your claim that the EU response includes a 15% tariff on EVs? It doesn't make sense.
- Targetting US car sales in Europe would not have much of an impact because volumes are not high (and there is already a 10% tariff in place), as @avoigt explained.
- Targetting Tesla in particular would not hurt Trump as he dislikes EV's, dislikes Tesla and dislikes California for not voting for him.
- Targetting Tesla would hurt the advent of EVs in Europe, because they are the most important company offering decent EVs.
- Targetting Tesla would hurt employment in The Netherlands.
- An earlier round of countermeasures has shown that the EU is smart and targets products from states that voted for Trump and products that have a symbolic value (Harley Davidson, bourbon, jeans).
The only reason to target Tesla would be to give an extra price advantage to German car manufacturers. But the EU is not Germany. The EU has done more than enough to aid German car manufacturer (like diluting the CO2 requirements). After the diesel cheating there is a lot less love for German car manufacturers in other EU-countries.
The EU has already indicated it is willing to drop the current 10% import tariff on cars if the US drops its 2,5% tariff on cars and 25% tariff on trucks. The EU countries also said they will import more natural gas and soy beans from the US, and they are considering other agricultural products.
Sudre
Active Member
Before you confuse everyone with your lack of understanding.... first off I was simply point out a cost to production when using ovens of any kind.
Now lets think about ovens from a simple point of view. An oven heats a product and causes something to out gas into the heated air. Otherwise you wouldn't be using an oven. Whatever that element or molecule is which is being pulled out must be removed in a closed system or at some point the air in the "closed loop" system becomes saturated. There are many ways to remove the product from the air but one is needed. That takes energy to do, space for the equipment, and money to install the mechanism. I used scrubbers as an example of one way a company used because I remembered the rough cost. It is not relevant if it vents outside or not. If a solvent (or anything) is heated out of the final product then removed from the air then reused in the process then there is a machine doing something that causes that action to happen. Even if it is a simple heat pump that is condensing the solvent out of the hot air. That is recovery system.
I would expect a close loop system simply to keep impurities out.
It was even discussed here last week when Morgan Stanley caused the stock to plunge several points just by reiterating that it had already been brought up and that they were taking it seriously:
Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the 2019 Investors' Roundtable
Still trying to find a source for the exact number of "15%", but I've seen it brought up in the past re: the EU retaliation.
Last edited:
Similar threads
- Locked
- Locked
