Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[MD70]

Laurie Garrett on Twitter
so apparently this is going to be Trumps strategy. I hope Elon doesn’t go to much down the rabbit hole of saying the deaths due to the virus are over counted. On the other hand the tactic to create demand could benefit Tesla.

 

[Sudre]

Newsom has already said that Phase 3 for the state was "not even a month away". Perfect time/excuse for Alameda County to go full Phase 2, and open Fremont plant.

No matter what phase they want to begin, Tesla is already defined as a business in Alameda County, the State and the Federal level as one that can open. You have not read the lawsuit and you have not read the government orders and/or you do not know what Tesla makes at the Fremont factory. They do not only make cars.

For your reference. https://wholemars.com/alameda-lawsuit.pdf

I would recommend reading it because it also indicates the current businesses that are allowed to open. Fremont by Alameda County's own order is allowed to open except the government officials are playing a game because they are unhappy with Elon's way of handling things which is made obvious by tweets elsewhere in this thread. It is not legal for a government official to have special treatment of one similar business over another because of personal grievances. Altho we know special treatment happens all the time typically in court that special treatment is ended.

I doubt Tesla expects to get additional fees associated but at least they will get to open and attorney fees. Very expensive attorney fees.

I would bet what Tesla really wants is to reopen and then they can drop the lawsuit.

 

[troym]

Calgary? Which oil company?

Are you in Calgary as well? Is that an invitation to hang out?

 

[EV forever]

Yup, bcos if Elon had any proof that the County Health Officer was picking on him personally or Tesla on purpose, we'd have read about it on Twitter already. 10,000 employees driving from all parts of the county and neighboring counties to one location is an easy health risk to describe. Thus, acting in good faith. Absent proof that the Health Officer is injuring Telsa on purpose with negligence and/or with malice, Judge can't decide otherwise.

Note: government incompetence is not actionable for damages.

Again, you are assuming that Tesla does not have any proof they they were singled out and treated unfairly compared to other businesses. Simply because Elon did not tweet it out does not mean they cannot show it in court that the treatment given to Tesla was unfair. Elon tweets are not random or crazy or stupid. He is smart and would not just throw any evidence that would benefit Tesla out in the open.

 

[Fishy Fish]

Laurie Garrett on Twitter
so apparently this is going to be Trumps strategy. I hope Elon doesn’t go to much down the rabbit hole of saying the deaths due to the virus are over counted.

You're about 90 minutes too late...

Elon Musk on Twitter

 

[Jack6591]

The capital expense to move the corporate headquarters and Fremont manufacturing facilities could be put to far better purposes. Consider the impact on share price.

 

[Sudre]

The capital expense to move the corporate headquarters and Fremont manufacturing facilities could be put to far better purposes. Consider the impact on share price.

The taxes saved will be put to better purposes. Consider the impact on share price.

(works both ways otherwise companies would not bother moving)

 

[LJS22]

I think people are misinterpreting the outline Elon gave. Moving HQ is no problem. But they are not shutting down Fremont to build a new factory. They are already going to build a new factory and it will be expanded to meet their needs. Once that expansion is near completion then it’s possible Elon will phase out Fremont over time. He’s not committing suicide to the company, he’s simply getting HQ’s out of California and as time goes on it’s possible Fremont gets phased out of California if it gives Tesla any trouble in the future.

 

[powertoold]

This is all you need to see regarding Tesla vs Alameda:

 

[MC3OZ]

Safety training does NOT take a week - one shift maximum. Tesla already stateded in their blog "all employees must complete an online video training before returning to work at any Tesla facility."

Tesla has been doing this for 2 months already at their facility in Shanghai. They know how to build cars safely, as shown by their results with zero covid-19 cases at GF3 since restarting production.

It's time now. Not some arbitary round number, lika 1 week. That's the hobglin of an uninformed, disconnected bureaucrat, who would rather be attending a Sunday b-b-q than doing his job.

This will end quickly (and poorly on election day) for Mr. Haggerty if he continues to neglect his responsibilites.

EDIT: Confirmed! Scott Haggerty is dirty as crude. Investigate his recent banking transactions? Contacts with L.A. Times reporter Russ Mitchell?



And why wouldn't the Gov'n or California correct the record on Tesla's contribution of hospital equipment in Los Angeles?

https://www.sacbee.com/opinion/article242059196.html

The rot goes to the top with this won. Makes you want to leave California for a more honest State.

Sorry Dodger you missed the point of my post it needed more

My point is practising making cars is a lot like making cars

In fact to the untrained eye "safety training" can look a lot like "regular production"

IMO the outcome is similar, but the intent is very different

Cheers.

 

[willow_hiller]

Alright. I'm going to let this post serve as my final say about social media sentiment analysis. The biggest issue with analyses like these in the past was that they lacked context, so I went ahead and queried all of Reddit for two more public figures. So on a scale of Tom Hanks to Barack Obama, what does Reddit think about Elon?

I chose Tom Hanks because he's a generally celebrated public figure. And I chose Obama because Reddit is generally liberal leaning, but he can otherwise be described as a politically controversial public figure.

In January, comments about Elon Musk were about as positive as comments about Tom Hanks. Now, he's about as neutral as Barack Obama.

So has Reddit turned on Elon? Not really. I think social media conversation about Elon has just turned from the realm of celebrity to the realm of politics.

 

[EV forever]

I think people are misinterpreting the outline Elon gave. Moving HQ is no problem. But they are not shutting down Fremont to build a new factory. They are already going to build a new factory and it will be expanded to meet their needs. Once that expansion is near completion then it’s possible Elon will phase out Fremont over time. He’s not committing suicide to the company, he’s simply getting HQ’s out of California and as time goes on it’s possible Fremont gets phased out of California if it gives Tesla any trouble in the future.

100% agree with this.
Moving HQ is not a big deal, it is simply a matter of filling paperwork in new location. So, it could be done relatively fast or "immediately" as Elon says in his tweet. He was very careful not to commit that manufacturing is moving immediately or any of the ongoing programs. So, atleast till the new Giga Factory is ready, Fremont mfg will continue.

 

[PeterJA]

I didn’t propose waiting as the only option (I think waiting alone is untenable given the level of infection).

This post was meant to be done as a risk assessment - I saw claims about Shanghai being similar and wanted to check that. Turns out it is not similar at all.

I think the factory needs to open back up. But the data suggests they are going to need to be very careful about how they do it, and their Shanghai experience will not likely be helpful. They definitely need to keep their high risk employees away, and pay them fully for not working.

I think they need to keep at least some people on site (live on site) and do regular PCR testing. Antigen testing is now coming online as well which may help with capacity issues.

I also think they need to encourage (enforce?) strict quarantine procedures on employees when they are *not* working to minimize risk. And support them with deliveries, safe child care, etc. Establish a virtual bubble! Keep everyone clean, for now...

Overall we must drive disease burden down, and then things will get safer and safer. Right now the level of testing is just tough to match to the disease burden. We need more testing available, and then we can open up more business, safely!

In the meantime, the only tenable solution I think exists is to create a strictly enforced bubble, and PCR test (at least twice) any people who must enter that bubble.

There is more that can be done to stay safe in Fremont, which is being done in China. But I'm not allowed to discuss it here, or link to my posts in the Coronavirus thread. If interested, you have to search.

 

[Prunesquallor]

This is all you need to see regarding Tesla vs Alameda:
View attachment 540466

Yes, they argue the Alameda orders were internally inconsistent. There were two other points:

• The Alameda orders were inconsistent with state and federal guidelines regarding critical infrastructure (vehicle manufacturing)
• The manner of the shutdown violated the 14th Amendment (Due Process obligation of the states)

 

[Krugerrand]

I don't know where they bought the press line but I do remember an article saying the German workers who set it up quit their jobs and decided to work for Tesla.

It was purchased in the US. The logical guess would be most likely from somewhere in Michigan.

 

[printf42]

The capital expense to move the corporate headquarters and Fremont manufacturing facilities could be put to far better purposes. Consider the impact on share price.

No, moving HQ is just paperwork change, no one have to physically move.
But I suppose there would be huge tax differences, which politicians cares about.

And no, they didn’t say they are going to move Fremont, only said they are not going to expand it any further for new projects. They ran out of space to expand anyways.

So, stop speculating the potential cost for the move. And start to speculate potential tax benefits.

 

[powertoold]

Yes, they argue the Alameda orders were internally inconsistent. There were two other points:

I know, but I was skeptical of EVs being distributed energy resources because the definition isn't very clear. But after reading 740.12, I'm fairly sure that the CA PUC means that EVs in general act as DERs because they're able to take advantage of distributed renewable resources. So part 3 of my image is necessary to convince people that DERs include all EVs, not only V2G EVs.

 

[jerry33]

The capital expense to move the corporate headquarters and Fremont manufacturing facilities could be put to far better purposes. Consider the impact on share price.

The factory won't be moved (at least not until there is a replacement built, and maybe not even then). Moving HQ is not particularly expensive--it's just an office move. Companies move offices all the time.

 

[MC3OZ]

Silicon Valley’s engineering talent pool (hardware and software) has provided an enormous moat throughout Tesla’s history and certainly that projects into the future. This is evident in innovation, ingenuity, and invention of Tesla’ vehicles. Jim Keller’s contributions to autonomous driving will ripple across the world for decades to come. The Valley represents a mix of artificial intelligence firms, computer firms, Internet technology firms, and sensor technology firms that do not exist anywhere else in the world.
My hope is that cooler heads prevail on both sides of this confrontation.
Should Tesla expand into other areas and build new factories...absolutely.
Should Tesla leave California...I am convinced that would be a mistake.

"Leave California" is very different to "Reduce Dependency on California".

IMO the new Terra factory should include seat production, and far as possible duplicate all other parts production at Fremont, except for parts specially for Model S/X.

Seats and other parts should eventually be exported to Europe from the new factory, where needed, Fremont can continue to supply China.

Given that where the factory is being built will be a well situated area with reasonable land costs, there will be other reasonably priced land near by.

Eventually Tesla should have a purpose built corporate HQ not more than 5-10 minutes drive from the new factory, eventually SpaceX should have a similar HQ, again no more than 5-10 minutes drive from Tesla HQ.

Initially Tesla can lease a building for a HQ, the maximum they may need to do is take out an option to buy the land.

SpaceX, the design studio, and the crash test lab should all migrate to the new area.

Otherwise lots of things can stay duplicated in California, Tesla is a growing company and will need room to grow.

Long term they can probably consolidate California into a slightly smaller footprint

No reason at all to ever have zero software development in California, but that doesn't mean they can't do software development and engineering elsewhere.

Starting with a blank sheet of paper with carefully and strategically selected sites, allows a lot of streamlining and efficiencies.
Things are different now, Tesla is like a teenager leaving home to attend Uni in another city, it is time to take the next step.

Tesla and Elon have no choice they need to back up their words with actions, then everyone will know they don't make idle threats, but that is the negative view, the positive view is, this is the next step.

 

[Beltsbear]

Laurie Garrett on Twitter
so apparently this is going to be Trumps strategy. I hope Elon doesn’t go to much down the rabbit hole of saying the deaths due to the virus are over counted. On the other hand the tactic to create demand could benefit Tesla.

Elon did fully adopt that strategy. During the JR podcast he pushed the idea that Covid deaths are over counted.