Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[azaz]

Only nonsense is something about 90% that you wrote.

vast majority sound better? I mean come on, what's the point of arguing this lol.

 

[EVNow]

Because if somebody doesn’t stand up to the robber barons of the world then they get to screw us any time they like. The SEC is run by human beings that have gotten too big for their britches. They are not all-knowing and all-powerful. They even make *gasp* mistakes.

You have to get your priorities right. Standing up to SEC or Tesla's mission ?

 

[Curt Renz]

Elon didn't plan to build a factory in China due to the force joint venture requirement. You think he would be OK for Chinese to take Tesla private?

That's a thought. If not Chinese money, ever since the first privatization proposal Elon should be aware which financial institutions might be amenable to participating in a private Tesla. The list may have grown since then.

 

[EVNow]

vast majority sound better? I mean come on, what's the point of arguing this lol.

Only thing you can objectively say about it was that it was controversial.

 

[mickificki]

Will they? TSLA has been broken for a long time and continues to be manipulated by brazen crooks despite Tesla fulfilling all expectations and more.

People have been saying here for YEARS how this too shall pass only to have the next thing and the next thing and the next thing disrupt the SP. It’s no longer been a short term disruption but now into medium term disruption about to become long term disruption.

Respectfully, Mr Krugerrand, I will disagree. (And I almost always agree with your posts ).This fake news on tsla is unmatched but we’ve seen similar situations like with amazon, apple, Netflix, etc.

We will win. I pray Elon will never again consider taking tsla private. And again I say that selfishly, and super appreciate that he decided against doing so. One of his reasons for not doing so earlier was because he knew that small time investors like myself couldn’t come along for the glorious journey that is about to happen.

 

[Artful Dodger]

Weird, I was trying to confirm this, but searching for "ford crashing stock to take company private" yielded no meaningful results.

TMC Search Results for Query: henry ford

Don't waste your time Googling; every mutt on the 'net writes Tesla articles, and 100-yr old Ford history is buried in the search results unless you choose the keywords just right.

Search here on TMC instead for the good stuff (link to a Search above).

Scroll back through the results to Sep/Oct 2018 for 'Henry Ford/Go Private' comments. That'll land you in the meat of the discussion.

Cheers!

 

[Krugerrand]

You have to get your priorities right. Standing up to SEC or Tesla's mission ?

The SEC is interfering with the Tesla mission. They tried to have him removed as CEO! And they over-fined Elon by $19,900,00 per their own rule book. They sided with the SHORTS who MADE money while hanging the longs out to dry. And now they’ve done that AGAIN. The SP didn’t move based on his recent tweet, but it has now thanks to the SEC.

 

[abasile]

With the current SEC action, some have wondered what the worst case scenario could be. Even if Elon were no longer allowed to serve as an officer of a public company, could he really be prevented from essentially controlling a public Tesla? I'm reminded of this tweet:

He is the largest single shareholder, about 22% if I recall correctly. While that does not constitute a majority, he also wields considerable influence over other shareholders. Could he be forced by the government to liquidate his shares? That seems quite far-fetched. I would not count on Elon to just disappear into the night.

You have to get your priorities right. Standing up to SEC or Tesla's mission ?

Without Elon's passion and guts, I don't think you would have today's Tesla. His willingness to stand up and fight has gotten the company and the mission this far. There has been collateral damage, of course, but it pales in comparison to what has been accomplished.

 

[Fact Checking]

I don’t know what the final straw would be, but I’ve got to think if this results in another ‘punishment’... Tesla is postioned now to not need WS money. Seems the timing would be about as good as it could get.

While I'm usually a cynical realist about politics and SEC shenanigans in particular, I actually share Elon's cautious optimism about the U.S. judicial system: in particular federal judges tend to be fiercely independent, and the federal judge on the Tesla case is a good judge with an excellent track record.

I'd like to draw attention to the curious order from the judge during the SEC litigation, that required a filing by the parties to explain why the settlement is in the public interest, "fair and reasonable":

US judge asks Musk and SEC to justify why securities settlement is 'fair and reasonable'​

Back then my impression was that this was a rebuke of the SEC by the judge - but that she was limited in what she could do against a seemingly unfair, unreasonable settlement against Tesla that nevertheless all three parties wanted.

Now we'll find out, hopefully within a couple of weeks or months, what the judge thinks about the settlement. A hearing date could be scheduled pretty soon.

The difference is that in a contempt hearing the judge will have far more leeway and can act much faster and more decisively than during a full blown court case.

I.e. getting a favorable ruling during a contempt hearing and setting limits on the SEC's interpretation of the settlement might be a much faster way for Tesla to "win" against the overzealous SEC, at least in this matter. Taking Tesla private won't be necessary.

 

[Remus]

OK I am really pessimistic. I think there's chance that The judge rules against us and Elon got another fine and some more shackle thingy.

I can't even completely rule out the possibility he got banned for a short period of time.

But model Y's design is almost finished and their preparing for tooling up. Semi's refinement is progressing along, and I bet the truck is also getting closer to production.

I don't think anything SEC does would be able to screw up any of those.

As for the services and customer communication issues, I think Elon might not be the only one who can solve that.

So, this too shall pass, and I am attempted to set buy order at 230 just in case.

 

[AZRI11]

New York Federal District Court Judge Alison J. Nathan worked for Obama, hired by Rahm Emanuel.

 

[sundaymorning]

I wish he was less confrontational with SEC, get them to be on his side investigating shorts rather than the other way round.

Someone at the SEC has a hard on for Elon and likely wants to make a name for themselves so they were eager to jump the gun and didn’t even read the Tesla 4th Q CC transcript, this IS an embarrassment and whoever is charge of this SEC circus needs to lose their job and stripped of their title/pension for going after the good guy. I’m pissed as fk and it’s time Elon draws a line in the sand and stands up to these bullies/clowns. His comments about the Tesla transcript needs to go public to garner the support of the public, there’s no turning back for him, this is war and Elon needs to go full nuclear.


Fk going private, let’s take this fight public!!!!

 

[sundaymorning]

While I'm usually a cynical realist about politics and SEC shenanigans in particular, I actually share Elon's cautious optimism about the U.S. judicial system: in particular federal judges tend to be fiercely independent, and the federal judge on the Tesla case is a good judge with an excellent track record.

I'd like to draw attention to the curious order from the judge during the SEC litigation, that required a filing by the parties to explain why the settlement is in the public interest, "fair and reasonable":

US judge asks Musk and SEC to justify why securities settlement is 'fair and reasonable'​

Back then my impression was that this was a rebuke of the SEC by the judge - but that she was limited in what she could do against a seemingly unfair, unreasonable settlement against Tesla that nevertheless all three parties wanted.

Now we'll find out, hopefully within a couple of weeks or months, what the judge thinks about the settlement. A hearing date could be scheduled pretty soon.

The difference is that in a contempt hearing the judge will have far more leeway and can act much faster and more decisively than during a full blown court case.

I.e. getting a favorable ruling during a contempt hearing and setting limits on the SEC's interpretation of the settlement might be a much faster way for Tesla to "win" against the overzealous SEC, at least in this matter. Taking Tesla private won't be necessary.

I am 100% behind Elon on this. He needs to drag the SEC through the mud on this one, everyone of those clown’s trying to make a name for themselves need to be made an example of.

Not reading the 4th Q Cc transcript is a massive mistake by the SEC. the only contempt I see here is the one directed at Elon from the SEC.

 

[Krugerrand]

Respectfully, Mr Krugerrand, I will disagree. (And I almost always agree with your posts ).This fake news on tsla is unmatched but we’ve seen similar situations like with amazon, apple, Netflix, etc.

We will win. I pray Elon will never again consider taking tsla private. And again I say that selfishly, and super appreciate that he decided against doing so. One of his reasons for not doing so earlier was because he knew that small time investors like myself couldn’t come along for the glorious journey that is about to happen.

It’s been unmatched for YEARS. I agree in a decade? we’ll have won. I don’t believe Elon/Tesla should have to endure the manipulation that long. The mission is too important.

 

[heltok]

I think a big part of the problem is that language is not objective, but subjective. In one context something means something different than in another. 2012 0cars 2019 500k cars to me is interpreted as: given that it was actually not 0 cars and given that he uses one significant digit, 500k means 450000<x<550000 with p=.68. Not that he means x = 500000, p=1 which is bigger than 360 to 400k+80k and thus new information. But in another context such as in law, it might well mean that around 500k implies 490000<x<510000 with p=0.99 and thus new information..

What I do in this situation is I try to be generous when I interpret what someone else is saying before I accuse the other person of saying something incorrect or being in the wrong. I have a feeling that SEC is not doing this, they choose to be very greedy in their interpretation to try to find fault.

 

[mickificki]

Tomorrow morning on CNBC, gene munster and Gordon Johnson will excoriate Elon musk and demand he be removed as...well, Elon doesn’t have a title, so....?

 

[X Fan]

It was material, and it wasn't guidance.

• A) The guidance was 350k - 500k. That's a huge range. There's a big difference between coming in at the low-end and coming in at the high-end. Elon's tweet said "we will make the high-end" - that's material.
  
  
• B) It wasn't guidance; it was a declarative statement. That's why "funding secured" was so problematic - he declared to have funding when, in fact, he didn't.

And just consider this (I'll use your big letters):

One of the top securities lawyers in the world resigned over this

If it was "all good," why would Tesla's lawyer resign?

The biggest mistake, imo, was the "I don't respect the SEC" thing several months ago. His biggest mistake was taunting the SEC, and now he's going to pay for it.

Sigh, a new member with 5 posts. A shorty troll?

 

[Fact Checking]

What I do in this situation is I try to be generous when I interpret what someone else is saying before I accuse the other person of saying something incorrect or being in the wrong. I have a feeling that SEC is not doing this, they choose to be very greedy in their interpretation to try to find fault.

Exactly. Also note that the SEC is a U.S. government agency, and the SEC's overzealous interpretation of the settlement effectively applies prior restraint to Elon's protected speech.

Which is what the U.S. government must not do, according to the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution.

Federal courts generally take a very dim view of prior restraint of speech - the SEC even lost such a case in the past, where a convicted felon prevailed against the SEC:

Lowe v. Securities and Exchange Commission

"In Lowe v. Securities and Exchange Commission, 472 U.S. 181 (1985), the Supreme Court further emphasized the strong presumption against prior restraint under the free press provision of the First Amendment [...]"​

I have no idea why the SEC thinks they have a case here: the settlement with Tesla and Elon didn't involve admittance of guilt, and Tesla and Elon only settled under extreme duress of a SEC civil case and the possible outcome of Elon's removal as CEO hanging over their heads for years. There's no conviction and no limitation on the legal arguments Elon/Tesla can make against the SEC's interpretation.

A contempt hearing is a much safer and much faster to adjudicate forum for Tesla and Elon to litigate the fairness and First Amendment aspects of the SEC's position, IMHO.

 

[aznt1217]

Tomorrow morning on CNBC, gene munster and Gordon Johnson will excoriate Elon musk and demand he be removed as...well, Elon doesn’t have a title, so....?

Can’t wait to hear that clown Gordon Johnson exclaim that he’s a financial analyst a million times on air like he’s won the Nobel prize

 

[Artful Dodger]

Sigh, a new member with 5 posts. A shorty troll?

Had more posts earlier. Some deleted by MODS. Wack-a-mole style.