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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

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You might be right but I think there's a risk of lost opportunity. Other's are investing heavily in the EV space, and the decision to raise capital or not could be the difference between dominating the electric pickup and semi markets or not. To me, raising capital is something you do when you have great ideas but not enough money to take them to market (Where as buying back stock is something you do when you are all out of ideas... but I digress).

So to restate the question, do you think Tesla will be worth more as a company if they could launch Y, Roadster, Semi and Pickup truck all in the next 2 years with production meeting demand or if they only have enough capital to launch Y?

As a stock holder I'd rather have my shares diluted slightly (say 5%) to allow Tesla to increase their cash on hand by 2.5B so they can do more, faster. Not to mention it would take away yet another short thesis. This would have been more timely when the stock was at 360 a share recently, but even now a 5% move is nothing in my mind compared to the value of allowing Tesla to operate with less cash constraints.

There’s only so much money can buy. Tesla can only go as fast as they can go and throwing money doesn’t get it done faster. So many things have to come together to produce a vehicle and do it right, but ultimately *time* comes into play. Some things just take a certain amount of time even with someone like Elon pushing the time frame limit.

Design takes time
Building production lines take time
Building die sets and presses and press lines takes time
Building Gigafactories takes time
Building charging infrastructure takes time
Building a neuronet takes time
Advancing battery tech and other tech takes time
Getting the right people in the right positions takes time
Finding and implementing efficiencies takes time
Getting products down to affordability takes time
Shipping product around the world takes time
Educating people on the advantages of EVs takes time
Getting laws and regulations changed takes time
The list is endless, but ultimately changing to sustainable transportation and sustainable energy and basically changing the world takes TIME.

If there was a better way, Tesla would be doing it. Sure unlimited money would make certain things easier, less painful, but not necessarily faster. Faster is not synonymous with better.

When you’re feeling down or upset about TSLA or Tesla, take a moment to reflect on just how far they’ve come in the last decade. It’s freaking amazing! And it’s been fast.
 
Someone dumped 5k shares 5 times to bring the price down by 1.75%. Other stocks are down too - but by about 0.5%.

Stock Futures Reverse Gains as Soft Retail Sales Spook Wall Street
MT NEWSWIRES 6:14 AM ET 2/14/2019
09:14 AM EST, 02/14/2019 (MT Newswires) -- US stock futures have surrendered early morning gains Thursday after a substantial decline in retail sales rekindled Wall Street's fears of slowing economic growth. Sales plummeted 1.2% in December, the largest monthly decline in ten years and significantly below expectations for a gain of 0.1%.
 
Stock falling this morning wouldn’t have anything to do with the latest Reeking Alpha headline “Model 3 Demand Drives Off A Cliff” (!!!) would it, hmmmmm? I won’t link to that site. Go to the TSLA page on Yahoo Finance and it’s the big headline of the day there.
 
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Not irrelevant of course, but subdued. Naked short selling is like a cancer dragging down a patient's health, vigor, and vitality.
I don't know who Donn is, but it's not me... _You're_ confusing me with someone else... Sorry, Ralph... ;-)
Although it IS true I'm no longer the spry Spring chicken I once was... *big sigh*
@Smokey4141
terribly sorry old chap, you just have an extremely similar writing style to Donn Bailey from Seeking Alpha (sleeze Kinky (r)alpha)
whom has around 60 - 70 negative articles on TSLA including a hysterically ridiculous howler on a fuel cell truck with 1,000,000 free miles of "Free fuel"
eh, you are also from "gulf coast" so confusion can be expected, eh
 
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Stock falling this morning wouldn’t have anything to do with the latest Reeking Alpha headline “Model 3 Demand Drives Off A Cliff” (!!!) would it, hmmmmm? I won’t link to that site. Go to the TSLA page on Yahoo Finance and it’s the big headline of the day there.
Seeking alpha has no effect whatsoever on large cap like TSLA.
 
Sorry, wasn't looking at my real time futures feed: the TSLA drop is 100% consistent with the big NASDAQ and Dow futures drop and the dollar weakening.

Core retail sales -1.8% on 0% expectations is really bad U.S. macro data.

Ugly red macro day.

On the plus side this will hold back the Fed and also might motivate Trump to seal the China "deal": he sure doesn't want to run a reelection campaign in a recession.

Dow set to fall 100 points as biggest retail sales drop in a decade thwarts US-China trade optimism

Retail sales fell 1.2 percent in December, marking their biggest monthly drop since September 2009, according to The Commerce Department. The department also said retail sales fell 0.9 percent in December when excluding gasoline station sales.
 
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Oh, there's spec advantages from that, too, not just cost reduction.

Weight is the big one, but one thing I'm curious about is the cold temperature performance - would the dry electrode technology eliminate the plating issues with charging lithium ion batteries below freezing? This could greatly improve efficiency in the cold parts of efficiency test cycles, and improve real-world winter range and charging speeds, if that's the case.

The electrodes go on dry, but, I believe, they are still the same type of material and the cell still uses electrolyte, so I think cold temp issues would remain unchanged.
 
Why do investors think innovation is a zero-sum game?

Latest example, headline seems spot on, but ...
An electric pickup from Tesla or Rivian is a 'serious problem' for Detroit
Morgan Stanley: An electric pickup from Tesla or Rivian is a 'serious problem' for Detroit

HOWEVER, last sentence sends a different message:
“All else equal, a potential GM-Amazon-Rivian tie up could be a clear negative for Tesla in our view,"

I might instead say:
All else equal, a potential GM-Amazon-Rivian tie up could be a clear indication that EV manufacturers will be competitive and disruptive in the lucrative pickup truck market, which is a clear positive for both Rivian and Tesla.
 
Tesla is definitely constrained by capital (and other resources). Otherwise they could be developing and producing multiple vehicles at once. They don't have to make S - wait for 2 years - make X - wait for 3 years - make 3 - wait for 2 years - make Y - wait … you get the picture. Look at the legacy OEMs, they create dozens of new models at the same time.

If Tesla wasn't constrained by capital - they would be building multiple factories, bringing all these products to production much faster and even eat some money to produce base models quickly.

Tesla with $20B in the bank would behave very differently.

But they aren’t waiting anymore. Y is already done and moving forward and pickup may be revealed this year and Semi already exists and collecting data for final product. They’ll make those for themselves first to use, which is a smart thing to do for several reasons.

Time can’t be bought and this stuff takes time.
 
I remember that exchange well. I wasn't convinced by it then and I'm not now either.

Ted Talk 30 April 2017
Elon Musk: "I will announce locations for between two and four Gigafactories later this year, probably four. We need to address a global market".

How about:
Q1 2017 Earnings Call - 27 April 2017
Analyst: Can you just talk about what your ultimate vision of Tesla over the next few years, Model Y factory, truck factories, truck service centers, three Gigafactories, China expansion. Is all of that going to be funded with internal cash, or do you see partnerships funding despite the low margins that the battery industry has.

Elon Musk: Right. It's incremental dilution along the way. It's hard to say. I mean, I'm sure there will be some funding rounds that happen in the future. It's kind of a tradeoff between how fast do we want to grow versus like we can grow slower with no dilution, really. For sure we could grow at a moderate pace with no dilution. We could grow at a fast pace with some dilution. Or we could grow at a very fast pace with a high level of dilution.

Or this:
Q4 2017 Earnings Call - 07 Feb 2018
Elon Musk: But we are going to, as you suspect, need to make some capital investments in the second half of this year, really late Q3, Q4 for Model Y. But I think we want to wait probably three to six months before announcing any definitive plans on production location and the details associated with that.

Or finally from the same call:

Analyst: I'm just curious what your thoughts are with regard to when you also might generate free cash flow. Is that less of a medium-term focus as you prefer to invest operating cash flows from the Model 3 into the Semi truck, the Roadster, and Model Y?

Elon Musk: Yes. We could be positive cash flow, like I think pretty significant positive cash flow probably in like third quarter, which is like maybe four, five months from now. But we think it makes sense to invest in Model Y and – yeah.


Deepak Ahuja: Future growth of our energy products, Model 3, future growth of that, so.

Elon Reeve Musk: Our energy products, yeah. The opportunities we see are – we see really good opportunities there.

Deepak Ahuja: Makes good business case, good business sense to invest.


I'm not sure what more evidence you need before concluding that at some point between mid 2017 and mid 2018, management actively decided to slow growth and become totally self funding.

It is true that Shanghai could not have been done any faster with more money. But where's the European GF? US East Coast? The mystery 4th?

What's the bottleneck to completing GF1 and filling the Energy products backlog if not money? Supercharger deployment versus previous plan? Service centres?

Realistically, how long will European buyers have to wait before they are free of the 10% tariff on Model 3? What does this delay mean for addressable demand? How quickly can Tesla really scale to 500k Model Y per year for the US market given there is still no factory space to begin tooling?

You’re assuming it’s money but I can think of lots of reasons why. Just in terms of foreign GFs - could be the right offer hasn’t surfaced yet, that they are waiting for a particular government to finish all the paperwork - that stuff takes time. Just because Nevada and Shanghai move like a house on fire, doesn’t mean everyone else does. But even then it took time to seal those deals.
 
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