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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

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Just wanted to post data from the TMC model 3 configuration tracker. If you see, so far this quarter is looking much healthier than Q1 (Jan and Feb). I am guessing the demand pullback effect in Jan Feb and now the launch of SR+ has done the trick. May is on track to be better than Apr in terms of order.

A huge CAVEAT: TMC tracker is not scientific data as it is self reported. Noteworthy is that early adopters (2018 buyer) are more likely to upload their order info than the current buyers. Also there is literally no China data.

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Tilson says he reads 15-20 minutes on Tesla a day because he reads fast, then he repeats the incorrect summary of Musk's email as cash flying out the door (Musk was not referencing current cash flow, just giving a math problem with public numbers). Now I wonder why he's so susceptible to believing false interpretations in these sources he reads, and how deeply that bias has polluted his thinking on the subject. Someone should ask Mr.Tilson that.

For the record, all these conversations that presume Tesla is Amazon and then talk about how good Amazon did are extremely unconvincing.
 
And yet what he managed to do is to reverse Tesla into february 2014 and UNDO all the accomplishments of the last 4 years.
Perception (image) is everything.

What happened to Model 3 being a money printing machine?
What exactly is Tesla "burning money" today on?

I ain't no care bear but the writing is on the wall, there is no money to be made with TSLA.
Elon does not need his TSLA to reach mars.

I think it is way too early to say there is no money. One simple thing that anyone should be able to pick up on is the simpler build. Less components, less hardware. More software. That has to, over time, provide good economies of scale. I don't know exactly how that will trickle to the bottom line. But the margin on the software alone has to be a paradigm shifting thing relative to OEM cars. Obviously more up front cost. I'm guessing that cost will have to subside before the margins are realized. idk just rambling
 
I think at this point we can summarize the situation as today as a 50% go big and 50% go home. Under a financial point of view the operating leverage is not there yet. It means that an economy of scale is always possible thanks to huge monetary investments (2-5bn dollars per new factory creation) compared to the current enterprise value. The tipping point will be reached when Tesla is able to democratize their products, aka the model 3, profitably and with sufficient volumes. 1Q19 and guidance for Q2 say the opposite. That’s why we trade at 200 $ per share (half way point from doom and prosperity).
 
(Rainy day editorial for the bored)

One interesting fact to me is basically nobody knows how to tie large current financial losses together with promises of the future in some kind of objective scientific valuation. Tesla can theoretically lose 2 Billion dollars a year if everything is looking great as investment for decades of dominance (itself a hallucination of consensus -- no one can predict the future accurately). Netflix is negative 3.5B$ in cash per year and they are doing great because there is high confidence in their future.

That makes this less a game about numbers and more a game about perception and human bias and more specifically, mammalian status. Tesla is getting crapped on because in status games the biggest most valuable game for hunting is the individual that historically has high status but is in the process of falling off their pedestal. The people attacking Tesla are mostly perceiving the opportunity to lay claim to reputation for themselves by predicting ahead of time that Tesla will fail, as well as landing some blows on the way down. And Tesla has fallen enough that they don't even have to be rigorous anymore in their attacks ("if you aim at the king, don't miss" -- but it doesn't apply here anymore).

Within a status lens a lot of things become clear. For one thing, complaining about FUD and mistreatment is itself low status and doesn't do anything to earn respect. It's particularly bad when Tesla PR and Elon do it, but the fanbase shouldn't either. Second, the most natural reaction for someone who has lost status is to enter 'depression' which is basically slinking back and trying to be quiet and do the 'right thing' ('work hard, cut costs, sell cars'). So you have a catch-22 where actual execution isn't necessarily even the way out especially if it's marginal. You still have to execute of course, ultimately that matters the most but doing your job can't look like your 'solution to a problem', it is supposed to look effortless. Elon/Tesla clearly doesn't make it look effortless.

If Tesla can shock with outperformance like last Q3 or - edited for Game of Thrones spoiler - that's one way out. I actually think a profitable quarter here in Q2 would be sufficient but only because of how unlikely it is in the first place. Another thing would be if the FSD tech actually was on the path Elon says, but I also don't personally find that likely (intelligent folks can disagree).

Another way out is to get the help of association with another high status individual. Essentially Tesla needs allies. Larry Ellison was a decent example, although very limited effect. Big investments from china or petrol state megacorps are notable. Partnerships with a tech giant would be notable. I swear to god if I was Apple I would have a giant piece of Tesla because if Apple was behind Tesla financially and strategically then the impression of inevitability for Tesla would be raised much higher. But we're basically at the mercy of Musk's intuitions, and his intuition is that he can single-handedly make improbable things happen. That works sometimes. This lens of association also makes it clear the importance of SpaceX executing well.
 
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Well, Amazon US retailing is barely profitable.

International is still losing money.

Amazon makes money hand over fist with web services, consulting, video streaming etc.
It's barely profitable because it's still investing heavily.

They invented "retail as a service" nobody even noticed yet, it's not only highly profitable, they can make or break a manufacturer! And they have all capital intensive pieces almost ready, now they are crushing ups and FedEx to complete the vertical integration.
 
Just wanted to post data from the TMC model 3 configuration tracker. If you see, so far this quarter is looking much healthier than Q1 (Jan and Feb). I am guessing the demand pullback effect in Jan Feb and now the launch of SR+ has done the trick. May is on track to be better than Apr in terms of order.

A huge CAVEAT: TMC tracker is not scientific data as it is self reported. Noteworthy is that early adopters (2018 buyer) are more likely to upload their order info than the current buyers. Also there is literally no China data.

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I seriously think Q2 2019 could surprise to the upside. Especially with today's pessimism in $TSLA stock. The data you posted suggests that Q2 is going to be substantially better than Q1, though maybe I'm getting something wrong.
 
Sorry, I still see no proof that publishers are singling out Tesla because Tesla won’t advertise in their publication or on their channel. Do you have any?
So you want direct evidence of a scandle that involves no illgegal activity, just bias? I think you can just look at the results of what is out there. If you can’t see it, then there really is no point in arguing further.
 
As you can see in the video of him providing his “wonderful” insight, definitely not great.


They have changed their tune after that, given that the electorate nominated climate crisis as the number one election issue.

Josh Frydenberg AKA FrydInCoal, former energy minister and current treasurer, reiterated on live national TV today that the climate crisis is real. Also, Tony Abbott , ex-PM, our version of Donald Trump lost his seat. So hopefully, there is less pressure now to pull the party to the right and Josh meant what he wrote in this article.

https://www.smh.com.au/opinion/stan...-electric-car-revolution-20180112-h0hazy.html

Conservative=the party that wants to conserve the environment?

They are actually called the Liberal Party here. Though they are not liberal at all :rolleyes:
 
Why is it everyone in the media seems to assume that the only cash Tesla has is this capital raise? They ignore all the vehicles they are selling as well as Tesla Energy which is now ramping. I’m so sick of the brainless FUD.
This is because of Elektrek's article that references Tesla's cash reserve as running out in 10 months despite the capital raise. Blog - Report: Musk Orders Company to Cut Costs

from Claudia Assis: "Chief Executive Elon Musk reportedly has told employees that the company’s $2.2 billion cash reserve “is a lot of money, but actually only gives us about 10 months at the first-quarter burn rate to achieve breakeven,” according to a late Thursday report on Electrek, which cited an email from Musk."

More FUD, Jalopnik is writing: "In that same statement to employees, Musk stated that if the company’s Q1 losses of $700 million were to extend through the year, the company would be out of money within 10 months. Despite recently closing a $2.7 billion offering of stock and convertible notes, the company currently only has reserves of $2.2 billion."

Tesla really has to have a team to correct the craziness out there. I mean, how does that even make sense to have just gotten 2.7 billion and only have 2.2billion left.
 
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It's barely profitable because it's still investing heavily.

They invented "retail as a service" nobody even noticed yet, it's not only highly profitable, they can make or break a manufacturer! And they have all capital intensive pieces almost ready, now they are crushing ups and FedEx to complete the vertical integration.

I guess in 2100 Amazon will be almost ready to make money selling physical products?

Investments don't cause lack of profits.

They don't make hardly any profits on selling physical products. If they raise prices that draws competitors.

Amazon isn't making autonomous EVs.

UPS and FedEx can also buy Tesla Semis.
 
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Yep total garbage....this was in the first paragraph:

I also do not have a financial stake in TSLA. However, I admire Musk (despite his many, many flaws) for trying to solve climate change, and regardless of whether he's a liar, or overly aggressive in projections, or frankly (because I do not have a financial stake) if he's committing accounting fraud

That type of leading nonsense is total garbage.
 
What gives with Warped One? His profile says he joined Aug 17 2006. This is not possible. What am I missing?
Everyone has a breaking point. Or his account was hacked. Frankly this latest email bungling pissed me off more than probably anything else Elon has done because it was handled so poorly and worded to allow maximum FUD.