Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[KarenRei]

OT


Yeah I know that. The image is taken on a 50ish degree angle so the seat seen through the steering wheel cannot be the driver's seat.
The cab has a center driver's seat and offset rear seat on the right. If the person were in the back left seat, they would be more occluded.
View attachment 428815
Edit: closer shot:
View attachment 428819

 

[ggr]

Mod: 18 V2G posts moved: Vehicle 2 Grid yet again --ggr.

 

[Chunky Jr.]

Chinese EV startup Seres halts US launch, lays off 90 people in Silicon Valley

Seres, the Chinese EV startup formerly known as SF Motors, is laying off 90 people in its Silicon Valley office, the company announced in a staff meeting held earlier today. The US launch of its first electric SUV, the SF5, is also now on hold

Hmm. Maybe building an EV company to take on Tesla is harder than analysts estimated.

 

[humbaba]

So there's this gushing "review" of the Taycan and I'm left wondering what a real review would read like. The writer is so obviously in love with anything Porsche that its clear he is completely blind to any shortcomings. What I've been able to parse out of it is that:

1. he likes that it is a Porsche
2. he likes the handling, but it was all qualitative. Not even a nod to how many g's it can take while cornering.
   
3. it is slow. The author goes on and on about how fast it is, but the turbo version he was in is apparently 0-60 in 3.2s. That is respectable... against the P90D. But it is restricted to launch mode, and ludicrous beats it both in performance and price. (116k USD vs 120k Euro; 2.4s vs 3.2s)
   
4. the range is unknown, but the author is confident that it far exceeds that of the Tesla Model S. Of course, they are careful to not quote EPA, WLPT or even NEDC ranges... which is pretty telling.
5. the driver is impressed that an EV with batteries loaded in the bottom of the car has a lower center of gravity than non-EV Porsches. What?
6. he likes the interior more than the Model S and the complicated controls located on the wheel. He glosses over the clumsy interface ("Like most recently launched MMI infotainment systems, the Taycan’s needs an in-depth introduction to unlock hidden skills.")
7. it will use the Audi A8 "autopilot" system once regulators approve it. Is this any good? I don't know anything about it.
8. author doesn't know how to drive an EV, hates single pedal driving. Apparently the regenerative braking is minimal or inefficient, its hard to tell from his description. Another possibility is that depressing the brake pedal causes the car to regen to limit then engage hydraulic.
9. it has a fake engine noise generator
10. despite all of the love, he is (forced?) to admit that the ride is "lumpy"
    
11. he likes that it is a Porsche

I get the impression that this is the EV for Porsche lovers. According to the reviewer it captures the driving experience of a Porsche (other than lumpy ride) and I get the impression this is seen as a car to take out driving or to the track -- not for commuting. For someone who wants a sunny day high performance EV that isn't a Tesla this looks like a good bet.

Interested in other impressions, but especially corrections to the above or links to more balanced reviews.

Porsche Taycan ride review: electric game-changer

edited to remove Tesla range comparison that on re-reading I could not find

 

[traxila]

Sorry to interrupt the vital Car As Powerwall speculation but TSLA is up around $4 as I type this.

Cheers to those of us who've held fast through all this!

EDIT: Closer to $5 now! Any news I missed? My coffee tastes 20% better!

There was no real news that destroyed the SP in the first place, and there will be no real news that will cause it to reach record highs. This is one of the reasons it is so hard to own and especially to trade this stock. Credit the power of the market manipulators. Once they have assumed their positions the momentum swings accordingly.

The trajectory has not changed. Tesla announced in it super secret plans exactly what it plans to do. It continues to execute on those plans.

Tesla makes the best mass production batteries. Tesla now has the IP to improve on those best batteries significantly. Tesla is making the most batteries. Tesla makes the best electric cars. Tesla is continuously improving those best electric cars. Tesla is coming out with more electric car models. Tesla’s electric cars are acknowledged as the best electric cars by any objective observers. Tesla is building a gigantic factory for Asian car distribution at a record pace. Tesla has the largest supercharger network in the world. Tesla continues to improve and expand the best supercharger network in the world. Tesla has been growing at fifty percent production pace year over year. Tesla seems sure to continue that pace over at least the next two years. Tesla continues to improve and refine its manufacturing processes and to improve its margins.

Tell me what is really news in they above. What was different three months ago? The Tesla demand story?....which has existed always, and will always exist for the bears. What else? What real news has come out? When Tesla announces another GigaFactory location will this be news? Probably an opportunity to drop the SP....

Meanwhile the competition....creaks along. I have not seen gaps narrow...quite the opposite. Wish they would do better. We need a lot of electric cars..

Did I mention that Tesla has an energy division? Or that they make Solar panels?

 

[Artful Dodger]

BIG volume 560k shares transaction visible on the Yahoo Finance chart - price spiked some more a few minutes later.

Mistake in the Yahoo chart, or big accumulator took out sell spoofing short's limit order?

Edit: that volume bar got removed meanwhile, so only a glitch in the Matrix.

No, its there in the NASDAQ 'per-minute' data too: (click the 'grid' icon in upper-right)
09-56 242.80 31,582
09-57 242.96 561,211
09-58 243.2175 27,795

EDIT: Yeah, that's $136M in pocket change...

 

[Pezpunk]

4. the range is unknown, but the author is confident that it far exceeds that of the Tesla Model S.

so he is straight up lying in this "review". cool.

 

[Tslynk67]

View attachment 428773

Here's Friday's expiring options. If the theory that the manipulations of TSLA right now are being done by the sellers of the call options (hedge funds that didn't delta-hedge), then the effort will be to keep TSLA from closing above 240. If that's not possible, it's even more important to the manipulators to see TSLA close below 242.50.

I think we're seeing more oddball strikes in popular use recently (242.50 calls, 222.50 puts) because the buyers of the options realize that the stock is indeed being manipulated and they're hoping to spread out the option strike prices somewhat.

When do the manipulations lessen? That timing, I suspect, will be when institutional investors and more cautious investors start buying again. The volumes will be going up, the buying by longs will result in buying by shorts to cover and as the stock price rises the market makers (most, at least) will be buying shares to delta-hedge their options sold. Media coverage will become less negative (except for WSJ, BusinessInsider, NYT, and L.A. Times). Let's hope that Q2 ER provides the catalyst to get the whole train in motion (phrase chosen for benefit of @neroden ).

What you said...

 

[M3Rider]

The article says:

Porsche promises a 320-mile range and we’re on course for that.

 

[humbaba]

so he is straight up lying in this "review". cool.

I knew I should've found the quote on that. Reading too many things and I didn't find the whole statement on a quick skim. He alludes to a 320 mile range and says "he believes it" because after two hours of driving it is a 48% charge. I guess you can drive it for four hours without regard to hills, curves, starts, stops, etc.

So I have to retract the Tesla comparison, I'm not finding it again. May have gotten it confused with something else I was reading.

 

[MP3Mike]

He alludes to a 320 mile range and says "he believes it" because after two hours of driving it is a 48% charge.

That means he would have to have been averaging more than 80 MPH for the two hours of driving to be able to get to 320 total..

And if that was the case you should be able to get way more than 320 miles of range when driving slowly or even on the EPA test cycle.

 

[AlMc]

There's only one way to resolve this impasse. Next earnings call we ask Elon if he's a dog person or a cat person.

No matter what he answers he will anger some people and the SP will drop 10%.......

 

[humbaba]

The article says:

Porsche promises a 320-mile range and we’re on course for that.

To be accurate, the quote you wanted is "Porsche promises a 320-mile range and we’re on course for that, having been cruising swiftly through the Weissach hinterland for over two hours now, with the battery still showing 48 per cent charge."

Which, as I pointed out, is just a claim. It is not cited as an EPA range, WLTP or even NEDC. Besides which, hours of driving doesn't really tell you anything about consumption rate whether it is an ICE or EV.

edited: or did he mean it has a "4 hour battery life"

 

[MarcusMaximus]

No matter what he answers he will anger some people and the SP will drop 10%.......

He’s a chimera person.

 

[Doggydogworld]

My friend could’ve saved ~$6,000 on a 3 kW system if he didn’t have to buy it from his developer

No, the house would have just cost $6k more.

Who got the tax credit, your friend or the developer?

 

[M3Rider]

That means he would have to have been averaging more than 80 MPH for the two hours of driving to be able to get to 320 total..

And if that was the case you should be able to get way more than 320 miles of range when driving slowly or even on the EPA test cycle.

This car would be a formidable 3P competitor, but not at $120€. Definitely not an S equal other than to brand loyalists. They will feel sour getting beat up by S on the track.

Well, it seems overall specs are better than 2013 S, so this is probably better than anybody else achieved, have to give them credit for that.

 

[KarenRei]

The article says:

Porsche promises a 320-mile range and we’re on course for that.

"The Taycan accelerates from zero to 100 km/h in significantly less than 3.5 seconds. It has a range of more than 500 kilometres (according to the NEDC). The 800-V architecture in the vehicle guarantees that the lithium-ion battery can be recharged in just four minutes, providing enough energy to drive 100 kilometres (according to NEDC)."

320 miles would at best be NEDC (515km). That would make the WLTP range something like 410km and the EPA range something like 230mi. NEDC is a joke.

 

[NoStinkingGas]

Haven’t heard anyone talking about this...
Q2 results on July 24th. Sign of really good news with this early report?

Tesla to report Q2 results on July 24 — MarketWatch

 

[KarenRei]

Haven’t heard anyone talking about this...
Q2 results on July 24th. Sign of really good news with this early report?

Tesla to report Q2 results on July 24 — MarketWatch

Far from guaranteed, but probably. It's not a universal trend that early results are good (see Q1), but they usually are.

 

[AndyH]

So there's this gushing "review" of the Taycan and I'm left wondering what a real review would read like. The writer is so obviously in love with anything Porsche that its clear he is completely blind to any shortcomings. What I've been able to parse out of it is that:

1. he likes that it is a Porsche
2. he likes the handling, but it was all qualitative. Not even a nod to how many g's it can take while cornering.
   
3. it is slow. The author goes on and on about how fast it is, but the turbo version he was in is apparently 0-60 in 3.2s. That is respectable... against the P90D. But it is restricted to launch mode, and ludicrous beats it both in performance and price. (116k USD vs 120k Euro; 2.4s vs 3.2s)
   
4. the range is unknown, but the author is confident that it far exceeds that of the Tesla Model S. Of course, they are careful to not quote EPA, WLPT or even NEDC ranges... which is pretty telling.
5. the driver is impressed that an EV with batteries loaded in the bottom of the car has a lower center of gravity than non-EV Porsches. What?
6. he likes the interior more than the Model S and the complicated controls located on the wheel. He glosses over the clumsy interface ("Like most recently launched MMI infotainment systems, the Taycan’s needs an in-depth introduction to unlock hidden skills.")
7. it will use the Audi A8 "autopilot" system once regulators approve it. Is this any good? I don't know anything about it.
8. author doesn't know how to drive an EV, hates single pedal driving. Apparently the regenerative braking is minimal or inefficient, its hard to tell from his description. Another possibility is that depressing the brake pedal causes the car to regen to limit then engage hydraulic.
9. it has a fake engine noise generator
10. despite all of the love, he is (forced?) to admit that the ride is "lumpy"
    
11. he likes that it is a Porsche

I get the impression that this is the EV for Porsche lovers. According to the reviewer it captures the driving experience of a Porsche (other than lumpy ride) and I get the impression this is seen as a car to take out driving or to the track -- not for commuting. For someone who wants a sunny day high performance EV that isn't a Tesla this looks like a good bet.

Interested in other impressions, but especially corrections to the above or links to more balanced reviews.

Porsche Taycan ride review: electric game-changer

edited to remove Tesla range comparison that on re-reading I could not find

Shoddy engineering. It's a cramped 2+2 that weighs 250kg more than a M3P. Range or performance isn't any better despite that massive battery.

Induction charging does sound nice though even if it's only 11kw.