Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[Yonki]

(Does anyone here have time to load that video into a video editor and compare the frame count between the Model S and the Taycan run? Both were driving that corner aggressively and were accelerating out of it hard, were not hindered by other cars and the camera vantage is identical - so time measurement with ~0.1 sec accuracy should be possible.)

Yes, someone does. I'll leave the frame counting to someone else (it's difficult because the cars were videoed differently), but here's a comparison:

 

[Tslynk67]

What are those huge green spikes towards the end of the day? Are these options being sold before the close?

Anyway, a strong end to the week given the MM manipulations weren't particularly successful - we start newt week in a good position!

 

[StarFoxisDown!]

What are those huge green spikes towards the end of the day? Are these options being sold before the close?

Anyway, a strong end to the week given the MM manipulations weren't particularly successful - we start newt week in a good position!

View attachment 454328

Yeah stock held up pretty well against multiple attempts to wipe out some of Wednesdays gains. Looking forward to seeing if the buying pressure remains next week

 

[RobbyJ]

Yeah stock held up pretty well against multiple attempts to wipe out some of Wednesdays gains. Looking forward to seeing if the buying pressure remains next week

Yeah, didn't expect they would end up above 245 today! A good sign indeed!

 

[Fact Checking]

Yes, someone does. I'll leave the frame counting to someone else (it's difficult because the cars were videoed differently), but here's a comparison:

Thanks! That comparison, as imperfect as it may be, IMO makes it pretty clear that the Taycan was driven harder - you can tell from the louder tire noise alone, and distance of the Tesla to the curb is significantly larger as well:

In you overlay the Tesla enters the corner a tad faster:

but exits the two corners probably slower than the Taycan, because the line is much less aggressive, and the Taycan can accelerate out faster which gives it a ~2 car lengths advantage at the end of the straight:

Or the Tesla driver didn't floor it while the Taycan driver did. We don't know as there's no engine noise.

So given the different lines driven this is pretty inconclusive, other than both cars are fast and slick.

 

[Todd Burch]

Yes, someone does. I'll leave the frame counting to someone else (it's difficult because the cars were videoed differently), but here's a comparison:

It's silly to analyze this for a number of reasons (then why am I doing it?). It's just a tiny fraction of a lap, it's testing so they may not be going all out at all or at this particular point in the lap, etc...

Foreward & Disclaimer: I have experience in Photogrammetry.

The Taycan took 10 seconds + 50 frames to go from one reference point near the start of the video to a reference point near the end of the video.
The S took 10 seconds + 58 frames to go between those same reference points.

(Again, assumption is that this was recorded from the exact same vantage point). A total difference of about 0.26 seconds.

Assuming both cars are going all out, the only conclusion I can draw is that, given the S still needs tuning, they are most certainly in the ballpark and based on this ridiculously tiny clip, this is definitely doable.

Can you extrapolate this to a whole lap? Absolutely not. After all, this post is completely absurd. I shouldn't be wasting my time with it. But here I am.

Now let's do an absurdly-granular analysis which is also of equal ridiculousness:

1. The videos aren't quite synched. The Taycan is ahead of the S as far as synching the videos is concerned. 3 frames, and assuming 30 fps, about a 0.1 sec head start:

2. The S gets to this point faster than the Taycan (remember, since the videos aren't synced the Taycan had an approx 0.1sec head start). You can't see it in the image here, but I lined up a scrape mark going across the track at this point as a point of reference:

Since they now line up at the same spot, the S has traveled this section approximately 0.1 sec faster than the Taycan.

3. At this point, notice this mark on the track. Both cars appear to be about the same distance past it. The cars appear to have traveled this section in almost identical timeframes.

4. Taycan got to this spot 11 frames sooner than the S, implying it was approximately 0.36 sec faster than the S thru this stretch.

 

[Fact Checking]

It's silly to analyze this for a number of reasons (then why am I doing it?). It's just a tiny fraction of a lap, it's testing so they may not be going all out at all or at this particular point in the lap, etc...

While my racing experience doesn't go beyond Go-Kart, I think we can conclusively state that the Tesla didn't go all out in that video, given the comparatively large distance to the curb:

There's a reason racing drivers are hugging and sometimes driving on the curb - it's a big advantage when driving near the tire slip boundary to not have the extra centrifugal force take away from your grip budget:

So the lines they are driving on are flattened as much as possible, with the apex as close to the curb as physically possible, sometimes a bit closer:

The ~50 cm distance the Tesla had from the curb of both corners is a big difference and a signal that the driver was driving the car very conservatively in that section, compared to the Taycan.

So sadly the Tesla was not driving a fast lap.

 

[Tslynk67]

I think we can conclusively state that the Tesla didn't go all out in that video, given the comparatively large distance to the curb:

View attachment 454346

There's a reason racing drivers are hugging and sometimes driving on the curb - it's a big advantage when driving near the tire slip boundary to not have the extra centrifugal force taking away from your grip.

So the lines they are driving on are flattened as much as possible. The ~50 cm distance the Tesla had from the curb is a big difference and a signal that the driver was driving the car very conservatively in that section, compared to the Taycan.

So sadly the Tesla was not driving a fast lap.

Looks like the Tesla's suspension is a little too soft to me, it's leaning into the corners a little too much.

Can be the line isn't as aggressive because:
- driver wasn't trying
- driver doesn't know the best lines
- car can't do it
- all, or any of the above

Time will tell, but what great entertainment!!

 

[Fact Checking]

Looks like the Tesla's suspension is a little too soft to me, it's leaning into the corners a little too much.

Can be the line isn't as aggressive because:
- driver wasn't trying
- driver doesn't know the best lines
- car can't do it
- all, or any of the above

Time will tell, but what great entertainment!!

There's three other possibilities I think:

• It's possible that he overshot the turn-in point and had to correct, taking both corners more widely than ideal.
• It's also possible that the Plaid is using automatic torque vectoring with the two rear motors, in which case a softer suspension could be used, which has more overall grip on a complex track than overly stiff racing suspension.
• The Plaid is using the Raven's dynamic air suspension to hug the road in straights, but it's not fully tuned yet to stiffen up in corners.

 

[Steve m]

Looks like a party at Beijing DMV

Vincent on Twitter

 

[Fact Checking]

Looks like a party at Beijing DMV

Vincent on Twitter

Nice:

[China] "Sales went insane after purchase tax exemption."​

That car purchase tax exemption reduced prices of all Tesla models by 10%, with no cost to Tesla.

 

[hobbes]

Taycan: 12.0 seconds
Model S: 12.3 seconds
error margin: +-0.04 seconds (that´s 1 frame)

Don´t shoot the messenger !

Extrapolating that to the 7:42 that the Taycan did on the whole lap that would be 12 +-1.5 seconds more. Obviously that small section is not representative of the whole lap, did this just to get an idea what that speed difference would mean. Also although both seem to go near the limit, you never know if they really are or just going 95% or whatever.

EDIT: Just realized someone was faster . @Todd Burch got a 8 frame difference, I got 7 frame difference, so we´re both within the error margin I stated so that validates the result. Whatever that means in the grand scheme of things...

 

[Causalien]

For those following the Nürburgring race, the key dates to watch are September 18, September 21 and September 25, because those are the days on which Tesla has purchased exclusive track time (longest slot about ~2 hours), according to:

Tesla-Attacke auf den Porsche Taycan: Stärkeres Model S übt für den Ring-Rekord​

Tesla has built an improvised repair, maintenance and recharging facility right on Nürburgring premises:

Tesla is testing and tuning on the Ring every day, and their driver is Thomas Mutsch, who is not as well known as Nico Rosberg, but is considered a Nürburgring specialist, who achieved several official Nürburgring lap records.

Here's a video from yesterday, the Plaid prototype can be seen at 2:48, the Taycan at 5:00:

(Does anyone here have time to load that video into a video editor and compare the frame count between the Model S and the Taycan run? Both were driving that corner aggressively and were accelerating out of it hard, were not hindered by other cars and the camera vantage is identical - so time measurement with ~0.1 sec accuracy should be possible.)

Tesla is certainly taking this very seriously.

If the article is accurate then Tesla's earliest Nürburgring record attempt (or at least the first hot lap) can be expected on September 18, Wednesday next week - weather permitting.

​

Leaving the setup there could help Nurburgring get future EV bookings while Tesla can probably save on transport cost. Or this team should just pack it up and start tackling all the famous tracks in the world.

 

[Doggydogworld]

There's two other possibilities I think:

• It's possible that he overshot the turn-in point and had to correct, taking both corners more widely than ideal.

Three comments say the Tesla wasn't being driven hard? Ha. He was going considerably faster into the first turn. He went from 0.1s behind to slightly ahead in less than a second. That's 10-15 mph faster. Maybe too fast, messing up his line? Hard to say.

The Taycan accelerated away on the lower straight. Obviously the Tesla's motors & batteries were overheating /s.

Can't draw any conclusions from this. All the other "cars" went through in similar time. The boxy SUVs were a second or two slower.

Edit - this is 25 fps, not 30...

 

[KarenRei]

Bjorn had the same problem on his white seats on the Model X he ended up selling.

Yeah... after how many kilometers, though?

 

[hobbes]

Looks like the Tesla's suspension is a little too soft to me, it's leaning into the corners a little too much.

Can be the line isn't as aggressive because:
- driver wasn't trying
- driver doesn't know the best lines
- car can't do it
- all, or any of the above

Time will tell, but what great entertainment!!

If it is the driver that was speculated (Thomas Mutsch, helmet seen in some of the pics), he DOES know the best lines. He has driven the 24h race on this circuit multiple times, so we can rule out #2 and #4 . You can calculate yourself how often he has seen these curves just in a single race !

 

[KarenRei]

There's three other possibilities I think:

• It's possible that he overshot the turn-in point and had to correct, taking both corners more widely than ideal.
• It's also possible that the Plaid is using automatic torque vectoring with the two rear motors, in which case a softer suspension could be used, which has more overall grip on a complex track than overly stiff racing suspension.
• The Plaid is using the Raven's dynamic air suspension to hug the road in straights, but it's not fully tuned yet to stiffen up in corners.

Are you people watching the same video I'm watching? The Tesla starts out behind (look at the trees in the background if you can't see the markings on the rail)...

... takes the lead, keeps the lead right up until the final straightaway...

... and then brakes significantly, well before getting to the curve. Why? Beats me, but you can clearly see it (appears to flicker, looks like a rolling shutter camera issue)

 

[Krugerrand]

After tens of thousands of kilometers? I have driven 5000 km on my white model S seats and they look spanking new.

We don’t need to know you drive in your underwear.

 

[Yonki]

The videos aren't quite synched.

First, I'm loving all the pointless analysis! Feels like we're looking at U2 pictures of Cuba in 1961.

Second, yes, they aren't synched, but not for lack of trying. When one frame was lined up, they'd be off a frame or two later. It's weird - almost like trying to align telecined videos, and it's possible that's exactly what the problem is. The video I downloaded and uploaded was 25fps. It was probably shot at 30 or 60fps. So there may have been some frame dropping that means every frame is not 1/25s long. So there's about a +/-0.5 frame error. As someone one said, the truth is somewhere in the middle...

 

[Intl Professor]

Sorry if already noted, but here's a readable summary with commentary by Randy Carlson of Dahn's recent finding on possibility of million mile battery.

Tesla's Million Mile Battery - Tesla, Inc. (NASDAQ:TSLA) | Seeking Alpha