Carl Raymond
Active Member
I think fact checking is Elon
It’s a neat trick how he runs commentary on his own live earnings calls.
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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable
- Thread starter AudubonB
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It’s a neat trick how he runs commentary on his own live earnings calls.
The always FUDdy Auto Motor Sport says that Tesla has already clocked a hand-stopped time 20 seconds faster than the Taycan during the manufacturer sessions:
Tesla-Attacke auf der Nordschleife: 20 Sekunden schneller als der Taycan?
They insinuate that it's the Plaid version.
Tesla-Attacke auf der Nordschleife: 20 Sekunden schneller als der Taycan?
They insinuate that it's the Plaid version.
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They don't say it's a time which they got from Tesla. There is some room for interpretation but I read this as:
Unser Beobachter meldet eine handgestoppte Rundenzeit von 7:23 Minuten => Our observer reports a hand stopped lap time of 7:23 minutes. This means in my opinion he was there and stopped the time while he saw the car passing throuh the same spot twice.
Not at 61 cents/kWh the way my workplace charged.
For Americans, FYI:
Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard No. 141, Minimum Sound Requirements for Hybrid and Electric Vehicles
Have an issue with regulations about noise makers being added to EVs? This looks like your chance to have your voice heard. Some sample points that could be made:
Address:
Administrator, National Highway Traffic Safety Administration
U.S. Department of Transportation
1200 New Jersey Avenue SE, West Building
Washington, DC 20590
In your letter you must reference: Docket No. NHTSA-2019-0085
The deadline is November 1, 2019.
Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard No. 141, Minimum Sound Requirements for Hybrid and Electric Vehicles
Have an issue with regulations about noise makers being added to EVs? This looks like your chance to have your voice heard. Some sample points that could be made:
- Drivers should be able to pick their sounds, and number of sound choices shouldn't be limited (this is the main thing they're seeking feedback on)
- The same rules should be applied to quiet ICEs, not just EVs; there's no logic to EVs having noisemakers but not quiet ICEs.
- The presence of sound should be able to be contingent on pedestrian detection, and disabled if no pedestrians are nearby.
- Directional sound should be allowed, to limit noise pollution.
Address:Administrator, National Highway Traffic Safety Administration
U.S. Department of Transportation
1200 New Jersey Avenue SE, West Building
Washington, DC 20590
In your letter you must reference: Docket No. NHTSA-2019-0085
The deadline is November 1, 2019.
OK, so quick update on the Nürburgring situation.
1, a Reddit user drew my attention to the fact, that the Taycan record is nowhere to be found on the track's official site. So I emailed them and got the answer yesterday:
As I am contributor to a local EV news site, so I wrote a piece on this. Not really dissing Porsche, just stating that - like Tesla's Laguna Seca lap time - there is no official record. You can't imagine the flame war that has started in comments with Porsche apologists...
2, German Auto Motor & Sport - probably the biggest German car magazine - says, that they had a guy at the track during Tesla's tests and they timed it at 7:23, or 19 seconds below the Taycan lap time.
1, a Reddit user drew my attention to the fact, that the Taycan record is nowhere to be found on the track's official site. So I emailed them and got the answer yesterday:
As I am contributor to a local EV news site, so I wrote a piece on this. Not really dissing Porsche, just stating that - like Tesla's Laguna Seca lap time - there is no official record. You can't imagine the flame war that has started in comments with Porsche apologists...
2, German Auto Motor & Sport - probably the biggest German car magazine - says, that they had a guy at the track during Tesla's tests and they timed it at 7:23, or 19 seconds below the Taycan lap time.
Only if you don't change the tires to tires that have the correct tread compounds for that temperature range. Of course, Tesla may not have a selection of tires to be able to do this the way F1 racers do.
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Stars aligned
Member
Quote from the article : "Together with the Tesla a container from America arrived at the ring. Its content: a large diesel engine. This generates the power to charge the Model S. Since it is noisy day and night, it has already attracted the annoyance of the residents."
The irony strikes me...
Already known, but thanks for checking again
The Taycan was also pre-production (the "record" was "set" before the official production start date given out by Porsche), stripped and with a roll-cage, and on non-stock, unnamed "summer tires" (you can only configure the vehicle with all-seasons) (Porsche gave out deliberately misleading wording, stating that it was on "production 21-inch wheels wrapped in summer tires" - the wheels are indeed stock (the 21" 'Mission E' wheels), but the tires are not available stock).
I was driving from the southern Netherlands to Belgium this morning and in half an hour time I saw 4 trailers packed with Model 3 heading the other way. I also overtook 2 empty trailers going in the other direction
Yeah, as mentioned, that site hates Tesla and goes hard on the FUD.
There are two parts to the end of quarter discounts.
1) Every quarter Tesla predicts demand for each option at each region and then ships/trucks the cars.
This cannot be done perfectly so towards the end of the quarter there is a mismatch at certain service centres/regions between supply and demand for certain options.
In each specific region there are some unsold cars with a certain set of options, while there is also an order backlog of cars with different options which have not yet arrived.
At the end of each quarter Tesla tries to balance this out and clear as much inventory as possible in each region. They do this by offering discounts on the remaining cars and sometimes use discounts to persuade customers to purchase a car from currently available stock rather than wait for their preferred option to arrive.
2) Many customers now know there is a chance of getting a small discount or some free options at the end of each quarter, so often customers now wait until towards end of Q to order their cars. To meet sales targets Tesla introduces some discounts again for the final few weeks of the quarter to push these customers into making their order with enough time remaining to receive delivery before end of Q.
This cannot be done perfectly so towards the end of the quarter there is a mismatch at certain service centres/regions between supply and demand for certain options.
In each specific region there are some unsold cars with a certain set of options, while there is also an order backlog of cars with different options which have not yet arrived.
At the end of each quarter Tesla tries to balance this out and clear as much inventory as possible in each region. They do this by offering discounts on the remaining cars and sometimes use discounts to persuade customers to purchase a car from currently available stock rather than wait for their preferred option to arrive.
2) Many customers now know there is a chance of getting a small discount or some free options at the end of each quarter, so often customers now wait until towards end of Q to order their cars. To meet sales targets Tesla introduces some discounts again for the final few weeks of the quarter to push these customers into making their order with enough time remaining to receive delivery before end of Q.
Ideally this would not be necessary, but unfortunately the public market's fixation on short term delivery and profit numbers rather than long term value means that Tesla has to play the quarterly game like every other public company.
With increased scale and cash flow next year, as well as shorter delivery chains after the opening of GF3 and GF4, it should be easier for Tesla to transition away from its delivery waves, end of quarter inventory reduction push and discounts.
zzziii
Member
I was driving from the southern Netherlands to Belgium this morning and in half an hour time I saw 4 trailers packed with Model 3 heading the other way. I also overtook 2 empty trailers going in the other direction
We should expect that this chart will become even better
bhtooefr
Active Member
Or, more correctly, a tourist time slot was closed to make room for that Tesla slot.Was probably true at that time - the big lie was the claim that Tesla couldn't possibly get track time, because the racing calendar is full for this year.
Then for September 21 an entirely new slot was opened, apparently for Tesla.
The unexpected magic of Nürburgring officials having control over the schedule of an only partially utilized, profit oriented racing track. A shocking development that no fair journalist covering Tesla could possibly have anticipated!
(Tesla presumably paid more than the expected tourist income for that time slot and any changeover time needed to reconfigure the track for tourist operation.)
Acceleration times for an already rolling vehicle are sometimes slightly higher than the zero to target speed time would indicate, between time spent applying the accelerator, and (for multi-speed gearboxes) time either spent downshifting, or performance lost from not downshifting because it would be slower to downshift.
We now know that there's claims of Plaid reaching a hand-timed 7:23, but this gets to an interesting point.
The intuitive way of making lap time is getting as high as possible of a top speed before the braking zone for a corner... but that's not the most efficient way of making a target lap time. The most efficient way is to use as much power as possible coming out of a corner, and then get to a relatively low top speed and hold it there, or coast - this increases the average speed of the straight, while keeping the maximum speed low (and avoiding the problems with drag increasing with the square of velocity).
Porsche is extremely familiar with this, having had great success racing the 919 Hybrid in LMP1 - the ruleset there greatly limits hybrids' fuel energy per lap, but gives them significant power to use coming out of corners (in the ballpark of 670 kW). So, it strongly encourages exactly that driving method - get out of the corner quickly, hold a relatively low top speed, and then lift and coast before regenning into the corner.
However, that's endurance racing, with a rulebook. When Porsche ran the 919 Evo at the Nordschleife for a hot lap, the rulebook was thrown away, and Timo Bernhard drove flat out. No rules limiting energy use per lap (and carrying more kinetic energy into braking areas means more energy available for the hybrid system to regenerate), so no reason to limit energy use.
So, you'd limit energy use on a Nordschleife record lap for two reasons:
- You're running against an energy limit
- There's some mechanical reason you can't sustain full power
Porsche gently approaching top speed and doing coasting in the Taycan indicates to me that one or both of those reasons applies...
So, that alone wouldn't have been a problem as there is a separate record for prototypes, but yeah it was rather misleading to imply this was a production car.Already known, but thanks for checking again
The Taycan was also pre-production (the "record" was "set" before the official production start date given out by Porsche), stripped and with a roll-cage, and on non-stock, unnamed "summer tires" (you can only configure the vehicle with all-seasons) (Porsche gave out deliberately misleading wording, stating that it was on "production 21-inch wheels wrapped in summer tires" - the wheels are indeed stock (the 21" 'Mission E' wheels), but the tires are not available stock).
Not the first time the VW group does this by the way. In 2012 they made headlines with the Audi R8 e-tron setting the world record for the fastest electric production car at the Nürburgring. Fun fact: that car never made it to production. A year after this "record" the project was shelved and they only ever made 10 cars for filming, promotion and internal testing. 2 years later they actually released a redesigned version, but production got canned in 2016 with "less then 100" cars sold at a cool EUR 1 million price tag.
jhm
Well-Known Member
Even these special use cases can likely be met with used vehicles. It will be an awfully long time before there are insufficient numbers of used ICE vehicles available to cover specific needs. And by the time there is not, EVs will be so advanced and specialized that I won't be a problem.
Buy an EV or drive used ICE.
jhm
Well-Known Member
Anyone not paying attention to climate change is part of the problem.
Anyone so ignorant of the climate problem not to know know renewable energy and EV are key solutions is part of the problem.
There is no excuse for inattention and ignorance. Indeed, climate activists have been working for decades to "educate" people. But supplying information will never educated the willfully obtuse.
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Pretty sure? I once had a Ferrari 308GT4 and felt slightly déclassé whenever we visited Monte Carlo. OTOH, Monaco is officially a protectorate of France so lacks some me of the legitimacy of Slovenia, maybe...I'm pretty sure Monaco beats them in that metric.
Anyway I’m trying hard to suggest that Slovenia is a bigger market for Tesla than is Monte Carlo...
Hopefully I have justified my gross error. BTW, Luxembourg and Lichtenstein both join Monaco as might even San Marino.
jhm
Well-Known Member
In Atlanta, I have driven by apartment complexes that advertise in big signs and banners that they have EV charging. Obviously potential tenants are asking about this, and for now this can be a significant differentiator in a competitive rental market.
This is no longer a chicken and eggs issue because Atlanta has significant numbers of EVs on the road now.
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